Composting with black soldier fly larvae and composting with earthworms (vermicomposting) are not competing technologies as much as they are complimentary. I’m not speaking from personal experience or research, but I believe it because I was told this by Dr. Paul Olivier, the inventor of the BioPod and one of the pioneers of black soldier fly research.
Add another hobby to the list
It was Dr. Olivier’s work that first inspired me to work with black soldier fly larvae (Hermetia illucens), so his enthusiasm for vermiculture is enough to motive me to try my hand with worms. Apparently the friable compost that is a byproduct of BSF composting is a superior medium for raising earthworms. As soon as my larvae have produced sufficient compost I’ll start a worm bin. In this article Dr. Olivier mentions the beneficial relationship between red worms and black soldier fly larvae that can be utilized for maximal waste processing
Calling all earthworm enthusiasts
I would like to exchange ideas and information with anyone experienced in vermiculture and who is interested in incorporating black soldier fly larvae into their systems. Feel free to post a comment, send me an email, or better yet, join the BioPod forum and post in the Vermiculture section. The forum is brand new so it’s pretty quiet now, but it should be a good place to discuss these two composting techniques. I started a thread in the Vermiculture section and you can find it here.
Comments 57
Hello,
I have been reading your blog over the past month or so and your efforts have encouraged me to start my own BSF experiment.
A few months ago I put together my first worm bin and now I have three bins on the go. I’d like to combine my three bins into one large bin so I’ve been researching different bin construction and methods for larger worm bins and have come up with my own design which I plan to construct in the next week or so.
I first read about the BSF in a vermiculture forum (can’t remember which one) and was intrigued. What intrigued me was how quickly the BSF larvae consume large whole scraps including meat. Currently I am freezing all of our vegetable/fruit scraps then running them through a food processor to make something like a smoothie. I bag this mixture up and refreeze it in ziploc bags until needed. Then I thaw out a bag put the contents into a 2 liter ice cream container and keep that in the fridge to feed the worms. It’s a “gourmet” meal for them, labour intensive for me, but probably why I’ve seen my worms grow and multiply so well.
When I read that the compost from the BSF was good for raising worms, I really wanted to give this a try. As you may know, most worm-folk don’t feed their worms meat scraps and I was looking for a way to compost virtually all types of wet kitchen scraps. And since the worms don’t have teeth, it can take a long time for them to consume whole peelings. You basically have to let the peelings decompose in the bin before the worms can eat them.
If the BSF larvae are indeed the voracious eaters as claimed and they can consume food “whole”, this would be a great labour-saving step for me in feeding my worms.
From what I understand though, the BSF larvae consume almost 90% of the mass of what they are fed so I would imagine that there wouldn’t be very much compost left to give to the worms. If this is so, I wonder if it would even be worthwhile?
Anyway, I’m not even sure if BSF live in my area of Canada (I’m across the river from Detroit Michigan) but I’m going to take a 5 gal pail and lid, drill a couple holes in the sides, drop in some just-this-side-of-spoiled meat I have in the fridge, snap the lid on and give it a go. I plan to put the pail outside under my lean-to and leave it for a week. If is see anything that looks like the egg pictures your posted, I’ll leave it for another week and see what happens. I’ll keep you posted.
Posted 14 Jun 2008 at 8:41 am ¶Barbara
Thanks for your comment Barbara. I think you can keep a BSF colony easily in warm weather, and with a little research and practice you should be able to store some pupae through the winter for a quick start up in the spring. It’s also possible to maintain an active colony through the winter by insulating them. In cold conditions the larvae develop very slowly so the same individuals can process food waste for months instead of weeks.
I don’t think I would recommend using meat to attract your first BSF. I had good luck with dry dog food (kept moist) and it didn’t spoil very quickly. You may want to consider “seeding” your area with BSF larvae which can be ordered from Phoenixworm.com (see link in sidebar) or other retailers. You would simply feed these larvae until they are ready to pupate and then release them in the vicinity of your compost area. In warm weather the adults should emerge in a few weeks, mate, and then look for a good place to lay eggs. If you have food available nearby they would most likely lay in your container. Please keep me posted on your progress.
Posted 14 Jun 2008 at 11:05 am ¶Hello again,
I started my BSF bin with some moistened dry dog food and after 4 days all I can see in the bin is a hairy mold growing on the dog food. No evidence of fly eggs.
I checked the Phoenix worm site in Canada and their minimum order is $100. I’m not about to spend that on something that may not work for me. I’d order a couple of cups but not 100 bucks worth. Any suggestions?
Posted 17 Jun 2008 at 8:52 pm ¶Thanks, Barbara
I’ve got a few compost bins going (http://www.nifty-stuff.com/compost.php) and in one I’ve got “cold” compost that has already composted a bit. The worms LOVE this cool, damp, dark matter.
Next to this bin I’ve got a mix of 1/4 compost and 3/4 horse manure & pine shavings (http://www.theeasygarden.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=207658#p207658) . This pile has exploded with BSF larvae. I’m very surprised they are doing so well because this compost pile is hot… I mean REALLY HOT at about 150 degrees. Worms hate this heat, but the BSFL’s seem to love it.
BTW, I can’t believe I’m already using acronyms like BSF and BSFL…. what a great blog!
Posted 04 Jul 2008 at 1:11 pm ¶Thanks Nifty.
You probably won’t find BSF larvae in the hottest part of the compost, but they can certainly stand more heat than earthworms.
If you haven’t already seen it you may want to read this article by Dr. Olivier:
Posted 04 Jul 2008 at 2:17 pm ¶ARTICLE
I built a flow through worm composter out of two stacked construction site igloo water coolers and some misc. parts. I had to add a fan controlled by a temperature probe due to high temperatures. Worked extremely well for the last 4 months, requiring almost no effort other than dumping in kitchen waste.
Posted 10 Sep 2008 at 9:40 pm ¶I noticed the BSF larva in with the worms about a week ago and did some research. I’ve increased the type of food waste I put in (everything but bones) and it all disappears very quickly. The BFS seem to stay up top and the worms like it mostly just underneath the surface. So far they are coexisting OK. I have the temperature controller set to keep the bin between 75 and 85 degrees.
I used to have fruit flies and house flies hanging around the unit but they have all disappeared. The only issue so far is the material inside the unit looks a bit on the wet side, but there is no smell so I don’t think it’s gone anaerobic. I will try adding some partially composted leaves to reduce moisture and help out the worms. The combination of worms and BSF would make an amazingly efficient composting system. Hopefully I can manage it so both survive.
I started my 2 BSF projects before I found this web site.
The first was a 5 gallon bucket with wood screws and wood-filler
for the exit ramp/pvc pipe with no lid.
The food was garden scraps only and a very soupy foul mess from
a garbage can full of just this “stuff”.
This bucket was started 130 miles west of Houston, Tx where
I saw my 1st female BSF.
This bucket was brought home to Houston area, days before IKE hit.
In this bucket the wood-filler did not stay .. Hard..
lost the ramp at the food line.
IKE left me with no power for 7 days which supplied me with lots
of food for the second bucket project. So I began my 2nd bucket
at my brother’s house, with power.
This bucket used 1/4″ nylon rope for $1, hot glue gun, metal screws
pvc pipe and still no lid.
Self harvesting is happening in first bucket after more food was
added past lost ramp from cleaned out refrig.
I just scooped out “food” and larvae from 1st bucket and
added it to the second bucket.
I have not noticed BSF yet in Houston, but my food does have lots
of meat currently.
1st bucket, ramps are about 42 degrees.
2nd bucket has 3 ramps, 2 at 45 degrees, 1 at about 40 degrees
and was built before I saw self harvesting happening in the 1st bucket.
I do not have a drain in either bucket.
Posted 21 Sep 2008 at 8:31 pm ¶Andrew, by using the fan you’ve dealt with one of the issues relating to combining worms and BSF. It’s not unusual for temperatures to reach 100º F/38ºC in a BSF colony. Another thing you will have to deal with is the excess liquid that the BSF larvae produce as a byproduct of the large amount of food waste they consume. Adding leaves will help at first but at some point space would become an issue I think.
Sorry I took so long to respond as I’ve been traveling, but I’m very interested in your progress.
Randy, there are definitely BSF in Houston. It sounds like you’re getting the “bugs” worked out of your units.
A lid isn’t necessary if you can keep rain out as well as rodents and other animals that might prey on your larvae. Rabbit cage type mesh can be used to keep critters out. The liquid can become a problem because the larvae can’t operate efficiently below that level. You might want to reserve any dry waste materials like grains and bread to use whenever it gets too wet in your units.
I hope both of you will update us when you get more information.
Thanks for posting.
Posted 23 Sep 2008 at 11:46 am ¶Very interesting idea. Currently I am just starting my vermicomposting business so I’m not going to be adding BSF but I would love to hear how it works out for other people. Regards – Chris
Posted 06 Oct 2008 at 11:22 pm ¶Ive been using my BioPod for a few weeks now after using a rubermaid bucket all summer. Im in NC and the temp has slowed down their aggressive eating. My escape bucket is ready to overflow with mature larve. Whats the best thing to do with these mature larve?
Posted 09 Oct 2008 at 11:20 am ¶Hi Randy25,
You can either release the mature larvae or feed them to birds, fish, lizards etc. A wide variety of animals will eat them, but it’s also good to let some of them go to keep the wild population strong. To release them just dump them out on your property near an area with shrubs so they have some cover.
I’ve released 10’s of thousands of larvae on my property and you still rarely even see an adult. That’s because they aren’t attracted to people and the adults only live a few days.
Posted 09 Oct 2008 at 4:42 pm ¶Thanks! It’s great to have found this information before I completely shoveled out my active compost bin after finding many of these larval critters in there…I freaked out a little yesterday, because I’ve never seen them in my four years of composting. I’m still a little unclear if I need to separate them out. My goal, while using all vegetative household food waste and stuff from the yard, is to create rich compost for use in my garden beds. I’m getting the idea that I can still do that. I had huge amounts of red wigglers prior to this invasion of BSF larva. It looks like the BSF have over run the active compost bin and the wigglers have settled to the bottom, like other folks have reported. I’m certainly thrilled to find that they are not harmful as I initially worried. And the anticipation of shoveling today the whole pile wasn’t exactly exciting! So can someone clarify that I can continue without changing my composting methods? Will I still have some material for my garden or will these voracious creatures eat it all? How do they fare for the winter? I’m in southern Oregon, where it doesn’t get too cold in winter. And the pile is pretty toasty. Thanks. Hope my questions aren’t redundant; I haven’t done a full explore of what’s out there.
Posted 12 Oct 2008 at 5:09 pm ¶Hello Heidi,
I’m afraid I don’t have much experience composting, but I’ve communicated with several people who often have BSF larvae in their compost without any problems. One thing to consider is that you can add several times more scraps to the pill while the BSF are present. You can also add almost any type of food waste including meats, dairy, and citrus, and the BSF will consume it quickly.
I just heard from someone in CA were the temps have just started to cool a bit. They’ve had BSF larvae in the pile for 8 months straight and when they turned the pile recently it caused the colony to migrate en mass away from it. My guess is that the disruption of the warm center of the pile caused them to leave. If I were you I would leave the compost where it is and try to keep the colony going for the winter. As the weather cools the larvae will take much longer to mature. At some point maturation will stall until spring and you can probably maintain the colony through the winter by feeding them regularly. If the food supply is interrupted for too long the heat will dissipate and the larvae will go dormant. Of course if the temperature drops below freezing in the pile they will die.
I hope that helps, good luck!
Posted 12 Oct 2008 at 9:16 pm ¶hey all! i have a worm bin (stacking tray) and tons of BSFL. yes, i freaked first, but then did my research and based on my own observations and what i have read, everyone seems to be doing great (worms & BSFL). i am curious about a couple of things however and would love to get some feedback:
- the “worm castings” are not brown and beautiful and crumbly like i expected them to be – with the BSFL present. it makes it difficult to decide when to harvest the “compost”… any thoughts anyone?
- i have recently seen a lot of the worms on the top of the bedding. the environment is very moist from the larvae, and i am concerned about this upward migration of the worms. how do people keep the moisture levels down?
- what exactly do the worms eat if the larvae consume so much of the food? are they eating the BSFL “castings”. it would seem that the by-product is nutrient rich…
thanks!!
Posted 27 Oct 2008 at 8:30 pm ¶Hi Ade, welcome to the club!
I’m guessing that the castings are wetter than you expected, and perhaps darker. I culture BSF without worms and the castings are almost black. The moisture content of the casting is directly related to the moisture content of the food scraps you add. The presence of BSF larvae allows you to process a lot of scraps very quickly and the combined moisture of all the food is released into your worm bin. BioPods are equiped with a liquid collection jar for this reason. If you want to make the castings drier you can simply reduce the amount of high moisture waste that you add. Adding dry grains/cereals will absorb some moisture.
For what I’ve read the worms do very well on BSF castings. I don’t know enough about worms to guess why they’re at the top, maybe someone else will venture an opinion.
Please keep us posted about any new developments.
Posted 28 Oct 2008 at 8:49 am ¶Updating on the flow through system with BSF and worms combined. Everything worked fine for a while, but I think I put in too much green stuff and the temperature climbed into the high 90s despite the fan. I turned over the material some and added partially mulched leaves but waited too long, all the worms died due to the heat (BSFs did fine).
I ordered new worms right away and upped the fan size. Now I cut up part of a pizza box into roughly 2″ squares and throw them in with every pile of kitchen scraps to break things up. System worked great through October until last week. We are getting temps in the low 20s now at night and the composter is running around 55 degrees, too low for efficient composting. I will be adding a heater this weekend, hooked up to the temperature controller (it can be set for heating or cooling).
The composter runs much wetter with the BSFs. I put in a drain and have the composter up on a stand (12″ diam. plastic pipe) with a small bucket under the drain to catch the drips. The castings I rake out of the bottom of the composter are very wet but don’t smell. I chuck them into the container plants, which seem very happy.
I feed it all the kitchen scraps (pizza, pasta, rice, bread, salad, fruit, whatever) except meat, roughly about 2 gallons of loose material twice a week plus the cut up pizza boxes. When it was running at 75 to 85 degrees it handled the load no problem. With the current low temp it has slowed down. Hopefully the heater will get it back to the 75 degree range.
Andrew
Posted 20 Nov 2008 at 12:03 am ¶Thanks for the update Andrew.
I think the biggest problem with combining the two species will be temperature because BSF larvae compost best at 35º C / 95º F and they can survive up to 45ºC/113ºF.
You may find this blog helpful: http://biosystemsdesign.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/black-soldier-fly-compiled-research-on-best-cultivation-practices/
If you insulate a BSF colony and provide regular food they can generate enough heat to thrive in cold weather.
You probably already know it but BSF larvae will process meats fairly well and also citrus and dairy products.
I’ll look forward to hearing more about your experiments.
Jerry
Posted 03 Dec 2008 at 8:27 pm ¶Barbara wrote
I checked the Phoenix worm site in Canada and their minimum order is $100. I’m not about to spend that on something that may not work for me. I’d order a couple of cups but not 100 bucks worth. Any suggestions?
Thanks, Barbara
—————————————————-
Following the links from Phoenix worm site in Canada led me to http://www.bugorder.com which sell cups of 100-150 BSFL marketed as “phoenix worms” for $10 as pet food.
I’d be interested in any updates to your experiments in Ontario.
Posted 25 Jan 2009 at 2:27 pm ¶Hi, I have a couple of Rubbermaid worm bins. They got ‘contaminated’ with BSFL over the summer. I haven’t had any problems, bins still work very well to get rid of household waste- I put in all fruit and veggie waste, eggshells, coffee grounds, newspapers, shredded junk mail, wood shavings from cutting treated fence posts, sawdust from cutting plywood. For the last four months they have been on my enclosed but unheated back porch. It hasn’t gotten below freezing on the porch but hasn’t been much above 50 either. The BSFL are mostly dormant, and the worms are doing most of the work.
Posted 25 Jan 2009 at 3:53 pm ¶I am building an outdoor plywood enclosure and will be moving the bins into upright barrels sometime in the next month. May have supplemental heat. Wonder what’ll happen?
Hi Barbara,
Do you want the larvae for pet food or to start a colony? Of course 10¢ per larvae seems expensive to me because I have 10’s of thousands of them that I got by putting wasted food in my BioPod.
I have communicated with people in Canada about BSF but I’m not working on any project there. Eventually I believe people in the far north will perfect bio-composting under very cold conditions.
Posted 26 Jan 2009 at 1:19 pm ¶Hi Eden,
Your set up sounds very interesting and I hope you’ll keep us updated.
Posted 26 Jan 2009 at 1:24 pm ¶Hi Jerry
I was looking for information on anybody working with BSFL in Canada and was hoping Barbara would post an update on her progress.
I may have confused you by quoting her earlier post. I used to forums and have little experience with blogs.
Posted 27 Jan 2009 at 3:24 pm ¶Here in Sydney I have two Tumbleweed composters that I alternate – filling one while the other is composting. At the moment, the one that I am filling is absolutely teeming with BSF larvae, and it is clear that they are doing a great job converting the material to lovely compost.
My question is how do you know when the composting process is stopped? And if I were to take the compost off when I think it is stopped, (complete with BSF larvae) what happens to the BSF larvae? With one lot that I did, the BSF larvae died, and comprised a fair bit of the compost. Is that OK? And what if there are live BSF larvae in the compost as I use it?
Posted 27 Jan 2009 at 5:11 pm ¶Hi BorealWormer,
I understand now, I was in a hurry when I read your previous post. I also hope to hear from Barbara.
Posted 27 Jan 2009 at 7:54 pm ¶Hi Ray,
Glad to hear you’re enjoying the BSFL.
“My question is how do you know when the composting process is stopped?” – If the compost/residue is mostly black with no visible food it’s probably finished or almost so. If you have a dense population of larvae it might only be a few days after you stop adding food assuming the temperature in the pile is optimal (30º-38ºC).
“And if I were to take the compost off when I think it is stopped, (complete with BSF larvae) what happens to the BSF larvae? With one lot that I did, the BSF larvae died, and comprised a fair bit of the compost. Is that OK? And what if there are live BSF larvae in the compost as I use it?” – They will simply crawl off in search of food if they are juveniles or in search of a good pupation site if they’re mature. They won’t harm garden plants or anything else for that matter. I think any dead larvae would only help enrich the soil, but that’s just a guess. They might also be scavenged by something if they are dead or preyed upon if alive. BSFL are happily eaten by a wide range of critters.
Thanks for sharing, please stay in touch!
Posted 27 Jan 2009 at 8:10 pm ¶I am experimenting with BSF and am quite impressed. Does anyone have any experience with breeding them indoors?
Posted 24 Feb 2009 at 10:36 pm ¶Hi Jay,
I’ve read that BSF have not been bred indoors yet, and I’ve also read a few claims that it has been done. So far I haven’t seen any studies to support indoor breeding but just yesterday someone offered to send me some literature that might confirm it.
I believe the limiting factor has been lighting and the day/night cycle. If the new literature looks good I’ll reference it here.
Posted 25 Feb 2009 at 9:05 am ¶Hi Jerry; Any info you can post on indoor breeding would be greatly appreciated. It would be wonderful to know requirements for: light intensity, light duration, temperature, humidity, space required and egg laying medium. To really take full advantage of these great insects for my project will require the ability to consistently breed in very large numbers. Thanks in advance.
Posted 25 Feb 2009 at 2:36 pm ¶Hi Jerry; In regards to breeding. Don’t know how I missed this info, but it is available at:
Posted 25 Feb 2009 at 2:44 pm ¶http://biosystemsdesign.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/black-soldier-fly-compiled-research-on-best-cultivation-practices/
So now I need to set up a test spot. Will post results.
I would like to know how the BSFL will work with poultry waste, like the manure, guts, feathers, bone, etc. I would also have leaves and garden waste to add to the mix.
Posted 11 Mar 2009 at 5:05 am ¶Also, where can the ProtoPod be purchased?
Hi S. Doyle,
I don’t have much experience bio-composting the items you’re asking about but I’ll give my best guess.
BSFL will certainly eat chicken guts. I’m not sure about the science, but I believe it’s not recommended to feed the larvae back to the same flock that produced the guts.
BSFL will also consume chicken manure. From what I’ve read it is a messy process because the larvae liquefy the manure. I believe the reduction in volume will much less than the reduction you would see with typical kitchen scraps which can be as high as 95%. I think manure is usually reduced by approximately 50% in volume. Again, I believe it’s not recommended to feed the larvae produced from manure back to the stock that produced it.
I’m pretty sure BSFL could break down poultry bone and feathers, but I imagine it would be a very slow process. You could maybe speed this up by grinding the bones and feathers before adding to the colony.
BSFL can eat just about anything except high cellulose items like grass and yard waste. I don’t think they would be successful with most leaves and the same is true with garden waste that is high in cellulose like stems. On the other hand BSFL are the champions of processing rotting vegetables. Here’s a short video I made of my colony processing some old cucumbers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVjjc4uVaz4
Adding high cellulose items to a BSF colony only results in added bulk under the best conditions, but may also cause problems. I haven’t tried it so I’m guessing (again
), but I think it could cause overheating during the summer months. The last thing you want in a BSF colony in the summer is any type of insulation. When BSFL process food their activity generates heat, that’s why a BioPod must be kept in full shade. I would think that layers of undigested material like leaves would trap the heat and drive the larvae out of the pile. If the colony overheats then you get premature crawl off because the juvenile larvae exit via the ramps as a survival mechanism.
The commercial ProtaPods are expensive to ship due to their size and the shipping cost varies a lot. I don’t have them set up for purchase with an automated PayPal button for that reason. If you want a ProtaPod please contact me using the contact form in the right column of this blog.
Thanks for your comments S. Doyle.
Posted 20 Mar 2009 at 8:12 am ¶Hey Jerry,
“We seek a peaceful coexistance” in one container just doesn’t seem likely to me. But, what if it were one container in two parts and both parts allowed species separation but mutual benefit?
Worms would benefit from both the liquid and casts of BSFL, correct? BSF adults want to lay eggs around odor of BSFL liquid.
Make a continuous flow worm bin from a blue 55gal plastic barrel. Good examples can be seen on the vermicomposting forum at Garden Web. Instead of cutting the top out of the barrel, we cut a hole in the top of the barrel to just fit the bottom of a BioPod snug and give that BioPod a mesh bottom, mesh size just enough to allow fall-through of the BSFL casts which are very small and would be facilitated by the action of the feeding larvae, correct? We’re feeding the BSFL colony so hopefully newly hatched larvae would not go through the mesh but stay in the food source. If a few fall through and die, well the worms will eat them.
So below we have a continuous vermicomposting bin which has good air flow that possibly will be facilitated by heat rising from the above BSFL activity. Worms get fed through a door. We have a door to keep the air flow going upward and out the top of the BioPod, directing adult BSF to lay in the BioPod lid as normally since they don’t have access to the worm bin below that is benefitting from the casts and liquid from the BioPod and since the casts are never building up in the BioPod, we might just be able to lift it up to add our cellulose materials to the worm bin and do away with the need for a door!
There you go, Composting2…I would try it if I had a junk BioPod to cut the bottom out of, lol but I’m not buying one to cut the bottom out of! Maybe I will try it with a bucket. How big is a particle of BSFL casting? I have some stainless steel mesh in different sizes…
Posted 10 Apr 2009 at 10:11 pm ¶Hi there!
Great site this one. Congratulations, you really do a good job keeping informed about BSF.
I would like to share my experience with BSF. I started a compost bin (a 34 gal plastic trash bin with self made holes) and I expected to find earthworms time later. Those worms doesn’t show up, instead BSF appeared , I think I live in a place with conditions quite proper for BSF. First were a few maggots, but later I started to count tens and I was afraid when I discover those maggots were a kind of fly grub.
Thanks to this forums I know the BSF better and I’m quite happy to have them in my compost.
Need an advise, how can I make a kind of BSF trap around my compost bin or so to keep them quite. Once, on a rainy day, I found a few BSF inside my house! I don’t want my mother canceling my compost project. =P
My compost bin is placed in a roof yard, is not placed in soil, separated from floor by bricks.
Thank you again!!
Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 4:08 pm ¶Hi Esteban,
I’m glad you found the blog interesting, thanks.
If you can set some type of large pan under the bin you might be able to contain most of the BSF. In dry conditions the grubs can’t climb a vertical wall, but when there is condensation present they can climb straight up. If you can keep it dry you only need a wall of a few centimeters to contain the BSF. Keeping some sawdust or wood shavings in the pan might help keep it dry assuming no rain can get on it.
Good luck with your BSF and your mother!
Posted 04 Jul 2009 at 6:32 pm ¶Hi Jerry.
I found this blog really helpfull, thanks.
I’m doing my finally university project in Barcelona (Spain) about composting and BSF appear in our compost.
At first we didn’t know what specie was this larvae, but a couple of months later we discover they was BSF.
So I decided start a project about BSF in mediterranean area, (I didn’t find information about european studies).
I wil start a blog about this research soon.
Posted 10 Jul 2009 at 3:28 am ¶Thanks again (and sorry about my horrible english)
Hi Laura,
Please don’t worry about your English, mi Espanol no esta bueno.
I’m glad the blog was helpful. Please inform us when you publish your own blog.
Posted 10 Jul 2009 at 2:35 pm ¶First, I would like to make a comment about a misconception about composting with worms. Worms do not eat plant material, they eat the bacteria which have fed on the plant material, so the aerobic composting needs to happen first, and then the worms take over. Will Allen of GrowingPower.org says he lets the compost sit for six months before he puts it into worm bins. Yes, he adds worms to the compost heap when he makes the heap, but he knows that the worms will not get really active until it has composted for six months and then transfers the compost to worm bins. Worm castings are made from the waste of digested bacteria. So feed the bacteria and the bacteria will feed the worms. It is like with cows, the bacteria digest the grass in a cow’s stomach and the cow digests the bacteria. Isn’t nature fascinating.
Two months ago, I got interesting in researching Aquaculture as a way of using the waste from processing chickens on the farm. I did not know about BSF at that time, although, all of my life, I have seen BSFL and thought of them of being a result of failed management practices on the farm. By shifting my perspective of one of BSFL as being bad, to viewing them as good and desirable, the world changes for me. My thought is to use BSFL to process the chicken guts and feathers into fish food in hoop house where fish are raised in tanks with the fish tank water being filtered by planter pots full of compost growing veggies in the greenhouse, with all water being returned to the fish tanks. So the idea is to get a crop of fish and vegetables with the only inputs being water, chicken guts, and goat stall bedding, plus labor.
Posted 13 Jul 2009 at 8:30 am ¶Hi chickenfarmer, thanks for the great comment!
I’ve also read that black soldier fly grubs get their nutrition from aerobic bacteria more than from the food waste itself. That doesn’t seem to make sense given how quickly BSF consume food though. Anyone who studies BSF grubs has seen how quickly they can dispatch a watermelon or a cheeseburger. My theory is that the grubs process food several times instead of once like most higher animals. We know BSF consume manure and I think it’s possible that they also consume their own partially digested residue until it no longer supports bacterial growth. That seems like a better explanation for their super-efficient digestion than a single process.
I’m curious what the BSF will do with chicken feathers. I’ve read that after a lengthy period they can break down fish and even chicken bones, so I guess they should also break down feathers.
I also think aquaponics is a fascinating science with a productive future. Currently I only raise fish in traditional ponds, but aquaponics is on my list. I’ve been curious for a while about whether my pond water has enough nutrients to support hydroponic gardening. I’ve imagined a solar powered pump moving water to a greenhouse on the bank of my pond and then back to pond. If I lived for 1000 years I don’t think I would run out of interests.
Posted 18 Jul 2009 at 11:54 am ¶I recently started experimenting with vermicomposting, and after a few disappointments with systems inside, I moved them outside to a larger system set in a spot that’s always shady here in the heat of inland Southern California. The lid is highly penetrable by those with creepy crawly intentions, and less than a month later, I found my bin “infected” with roiling, crunchy sounding masses of strange, armored looking larvae. I have inadvertently acquired an IMMENSE population of BSF. I have no idea how my worms are doing down under all of this, but the BSF are doing a bang up job of consuming the biomass I drop in the bucket. I was already planning to add my wrigglies to a Wicking Worm Bed (http://scarecrowsgarden.blogspot.com/search/label/wicking-water%20beds – popular in the hot spots of Australia). Apparently now my worm feeding half-buried buckets of compostables will include some BSF larvae as well… Thanks for making it easy to figure out what I’ve got and whether to keep them!
Posted 27 Jul 2009 at 4:44 pm ¶You’re very welcome Stacy.
I love the phrase “roiling, crunchy sounding masses of strange, armored looking larvae”. I don’t know much about worms but I’m concerned that the BSF grubs are generating too much heat for them to thrive. You might want to don a glove and go for a dig.
Please keep us updated about your surprise BSF colony.
Posted 27 Jul 2009 at 9:50 pm ¶Well, Jerry, I frankly had little hope for my worms just based on our weather in the first place. We’ve routinely been in the 90s for weeks.
After several hours of reading online last night about the little buggers, my husband helped me install an escape ramp this morning (he split open a piece of PVC and heated it enough to open and create a U-shaped ramp as my box hasn’t smooth sides to use with something like angle iron), with a peanut jar for catch basin (too tall for the local jays to reach the little guys, hopefully). The drop is open to the outside, so I expect it will also act as an entrance for any bugs wanting access to lay. I also raised the unit up off the water catchment lid more as the drainage wasn’t happening and the bottom is rather soupy. There were adolescent larva down in the water catchment basin, too. They also got a new batch of slop from a bucket my mom handed me a while back. Sadly, the consumables at the moment are lots of corn husks/cobs, a small cabbage, and some baby artichokes, none of which are a prime source for the fleshy loving little guys, but there’s also some citrus and melon rinds as well. The partially decomposed bucket of stuff should, if nothing else, attract more adults to lay.
Inspection indicates a fair population of smaller larva, and several egg clusters on the window screen used as a lid on my bin. They’re still pretty quiet this morning as they’re in full shade and our heat hasn’t hit yet today, but I expect things will get a little more rambunctious come afternoon/early evening – our predicted high today is 90.
Posted 28 Jul 2009 at 12:53 pm ¶Yup, there they go. 1 pm, 88 out, and that sound from last evening is gearing up. There’s a handful that have found, used the ramp so far, so it’s functional if not optimal. We’ll see how it goes over the next couple days/weeks.
Posted 28 Jul 2009 at 2:44 pm ¶By 4:30 there were several dozen prepupate larvae in the container, with more en route. There were about a half dozen or so on the walls of the container thanks to my mucking around earlier. I tried relocating them to the ramp via a leaf, but *every single one* of them headed downhill. Apparently, much like with my 3 yr old, it’s all about doing things on THEIR schedule, not mine. ;P
The ants have been attracted by the latest infusion of muck, and there’s some flies as well. We’ll see if they adversely affect my crew. They’re still crunching and heaving away in there.
It’s weird watching an entire lemon “breathe”…
Posted 28 Jul 2009 at 7:09 pm ¶Stacy,
All BSF units need to be open to the outdoors and not too many other bugs choose to enter. Certainly a few other insects will visit from time to time, but very few considering that you’re presenting very desirable food.
Concerning drainage issues coconut coir (stuff that lines wire hanging baskets) seems to be a good solution. If you line the bottom of your unit with it you get a filtering effect that might help keep drain holes clear. You might also want to reserve any dry waste items like flour mixes, bread, stale cereal, etc. for time when your unit is too wet. These things can help soak up the excess. You can also mix in some shredded paper, but not newsprint or glossy stuff.
“Functional if not optimal” perfectly describes my first DIY black soldier fly unit also. When I started working with BSF the BioPod wasn’t available so I had no choice. It worked alright and I had fun using it. I was very grateful that Dr. Olivier had published diagrams of the prototype on his website for inspiration.
Ants can be an issue with all of the tasty treats available. I haven’t had a full scale raid by ants, but I’m sure it happens. When I used my DIY unit I set it up on sawhorses and occassionaly I would spray the legs with insect repellent. Not the best solution perhaps but I didn’t need to do it very often. This year I haven’t had any ants in the unit except for the time I laid the lid on the ground and some red ants began raiding the eggs from the egg disc.
Posted 28 Jul 2009 at 8:39 pm ¶Last night I learned that the beasties prefer to migrate at night. While they avoided the ramp for the most part during the day, my evening delivery of kitchen trimmings revealed a line to get out, and the glass peanut jar had a good half to 1″ of them in it by morning.
My 15-minute afternoon observation session yesterday included a single ovipositing female who was struggling valiantly to find places inside the bin to lay. This afternoon’s visit involved no fewer than three females, all present by the time I showed up. One of them found a handy cutout in the bed frame pieces I’m using as weights to keep the lid on, and further inspection showed similar egg deposits on other pieces. I never even got the cover off today – didn’t want to disturb the females laying more eggs. I need to get some currogated cardboard out there affixed in such a way that they have an easier time finding comfy spots.
I don’t think I’ll have any trouble keeping a population stocked at this rate. Which is convenient as the lady down the street who provides me with homegrown eggs was interested in my offer of grubs for her birds.
Posted 29 Jul 2009 at 6:23 pm ¶Neat Stacy, thanks so much for sharing your BSF experiences.
When the lady with the chickens sees how they react to BSF grubs she’ll probably want to work out a trade.
I believe that when a BSF female randomely scurries around the sides of a BSF or compost bin she is laying eggs. Normally when I observe this behavior the female is dragging her tail end on the surface which is why I think they’re laying. It makes sense too because by scattering some of her eggs she offsets the risk of a predator finding all of the eggs in one place (basket?). The cardboard might be fun to experiment with but don’t stress about it, the girls will find places to lay without it.
Thanks again and please keep the comments coming, I’m enjoying your experiments and your writing.
Posted 30 Jul 2009 at 11:14 pm ¶A friend randomly had an entire package of rice get infested with things he didn’t want to eat, so I’ve tossed that in the bin to help absorb my excess liquid. We’ll see how it goes. I’ve also tossed them some coffee grounds from the last “harvest” from Starbucks (most of it going to the big brown compost pile in the yard), in part because I’ve heard they like them and in part because it might make my bin less objectionable to others in the family.
They’re heavily overfed at the moment and I’m trying to give them some time to catch up. Leaving them alone is HARD!
I’ve dropped off a second batch of grubs for my neighbor (whose chickens sadly are “on strike” on account of the heat!) – she said they loved them.
I’ve not yet seen them lay in the “nursery” but there’s still clutches being laid along the edges of the bin on the window screen, so it’s all good. The bin is open to the outside via the PVC pipe hubby turned into a ramp, and gets plenty of ventilation with the entire top screened. The screen does help eliminate the more annoying flying creatures that tend to be attracted to my wastes!
Posted 03 Aug 2009 at 5:10 pm ¶I see you’ve got the “bug”.
Posted 03 Aug 2009 at 8:32 pm ¶I have been vermicomposting for the last year or so…with varying degrees of success. I am trying to move my bins outside to eliminate gnats and flies in my house.
I live in the DFW area of TX…so it gets pretty hot here during the summer.
My first outside bin became “infested” with these grubby looking things…and I had no idea what they were…so I dumped out the whole thing. Then, it dawned on me…when my next bin became infested…that the chickens would probably love these grubs, so I let them multiply.
I have no idea how they get in the container. I took a metal trash can, cut out the bottom, drilled some holes along the bottom of the sides, then dug a hole and half-buried the can. This keeps the can cooler and allows the worms the freedom to move in and out of the container as they need to. I filled the can with leaf mold, covered the top of the mulch with a couple of layers of cardboard and then added a tight-fitting lid in hopes of keeping out those giant black cockroaches that love compost bins. I add my food scraps into the middle of the can once a week. Those grubs somehow managed to get in and are happily feasting in my worm bin.
Today I realized that these grubs are BSF and I am happy to know that this is a good food source to have been feeding to my chickens…they sure love them!
Meanwhile, the open bottom and the leaf mold seem to do a very good job keeping any moisture problems down. The BSFL seem to thrive in the hot middle of the can, while the earthworms are multiplying along the edges. I have read some of the concerns about raising them together, but mine seem to be co-existing together well…for about a month or so. Since this is all a great experiment on my part, I’m just watching to see what will work and what won’t.
After reading some of the posts, I’m tempted to take the lid off of the can…but I’m really afraid of attracting those giant cockroaches. If you’ve ever been to a wooded area in Texas you know what I mean.
Posted 04 Aug 2009 at 2:46 pm ¶Hi Trisha,
Thanks for the great comment. The BSF grubs are entering your worm bin as tiny hatchlings less than 1/8 inch long and about as thick as a thread. The female BSF are laying eggs on the outside of the can and on the lid and the new grubs simply crawl in toward the delicious smells coming from your table scraps.
There are many reports of BSF and worms sharing the same container and it doesn’t seem to bother either species. Since each of them have different requirements it’s difficult to design a container to maximize both species productivity. It can happen spontaneously as in your case but maintaining it consistently at productive levels is the challenge.
If you want to vent your bin by removing the lid you might try a tight fitting window screen. The BSF will lay eggs on the screen the new hatchlings will drop right into the bin. Of course you need to keep the rain out.
Thanks again and please keep us posted on your project.
Posted 05 Aug 2009 at 8:15 am ¶Hi Jerry,
I discovered BSF larvae in my compost bin a few weeks ago and I think I have read every shred of information available on the net. Very interesting little critters.
I have a Rubbermaid compost bin about 3′ x 3′ in which we place our kitchen scraps. If we put them in the regular pile, the two dogs get into it. Now and then I add some brown stuff like grass clippings and recycled potting soil. The first time I saw them I was seriously repulsed. They were all over a cantaloupe rind. Went in and looked them up and have been hooked ever since.
Went back out and looked again, and every time I open the bin there are at least 5 females flying around and lighting here and there. I had never even noticed them. They seem to like laying eggs on coffee filters. The larvae will just chew through the filter and eat the coffee grounds. There are numerous air holes in the bin and the adults seem to be able to find their way in and out.
I don’t have fish or chickens (would like to) so I guess I can harvest them for the birds, lizards and frogs.
I would love to have a BioPod but my husband thinks I’m nuts to pay money for maggot breeding. I might try Stacy’s idea with the PVC pipe.
One question, my main goal was compost. Will there ever be a time when it is safe to use the compost left behind, or is it a permanent breeding bin now? How would you extract the larvae out, or is that even necessary? I saw a YouTube video where a guy put a large butter tub, drilled with largish holes, on top with some yummy scrap in it. Supposedly they go in after the scrap and can’t find their way out. Is that a good method?
Posted 14 Aug 2009 at 3:55 pm ¶Hi Connie,
Yes, BSF do really like melons and coffee!
I didn’t have any animals to feed my grubs to when I first started keeping BSF either. I simply released them. I may have released as many as 100,000 mature grubs over the past few years and the adult BSF are only noticeable around my BioPod. I still haven’t had one come into the house yet. If you release them on your property they will be shared by the long list of wild critters that love to eat BSF grubs.
Of course husbands are always right, but there is a point to culturing BSF beyond just “maggot breeding”. By maintaining a BSF colony you’re accessing a powerful natural engine that converts waste into life. The amount and types of waste you can compost with traditional methods is very limited compared to what you can do with a BSF colony at your disposal.
You certainly can use the compose. If you separate a portion of it from the main pile the BSF will soon cycle out of it assuming you don’t add more food scraps to it. The BSF grubs are there for one reason, food. If the compost is in an open container the grubs will simply leave after any remaining food is consumed. You could even use it for outdoor needs while the BSF are in it. I don’t think it will harm the grubs, they would just crawl off in search of rotting food to consume.
You can also remove the light colored juvenile grubs with the method you described in the YouTube video. I describe how I do it here: http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/2008/07/25/collecting-immature-larvae/
Posted 14 Aug 2009 at 6:53 pm ¶Hi Jerry, thanks for your response!
I am going to try using the compost soon. I just fed them some cantaloupe so I’ll have to wait a few days. I have about 20 cantaloupes on the vine now but I figure there will be a new batch of larvae to take care of those remains by then.
I just love the whole idea of recycling with BSFL. Your web site has so much good information, I’ll be back.
Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 3:37 pm ¶Jerry, how do you think plastic gutter material would do as a ramp?
I get the design of the BioPod, with the molded circular ramps…no matter which way they go, they’ll eventually find one and the curved edge keeps them from falling off at the top. Have to convince Hubby it’s worthwhile. He’s hard-headed if he didn’t come up with the idea.
I’m sure he’ll come around since he wants to build a Koi pond…do you know if Koi’s like them?
Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 4:28 pm ¶Connie, any plastic in the right shape will work. Here’s the best advice I can give you; whatever your husband thinks is a good idea is a good idea.
Your Koi will grow fat and healthy eating BSF grubs. I think BSF could supply 25% of their diet or maybe more.
Posted 19 Aug 2009 at 4:38 pm ¶Hey Jerry! I’m scheming with some people that are interested in doing a vermi/BSFL-composting system, but on a large scale. Instead of household waste management, we’re thinking more like a city. Do you have any experience, or maybe some references to point me towards in that regard?
My biggest question is, can the BioPod design be expanded to hold more than the household one does, or is there a reason for the size being the way it is that keeps the BSFs happy? Thanks!
Posted 11 Jan 2010 at 12:47 am ¶Hi Josh,
Using both worms and BSF to process the same waste give great results, but combining the two species in one container may prove to be difficult. Worms and BSF don’t harm each other but they don’t reach their maximum potentials under the same environmental conditions. Worms do thrive in BSF residue to at the least you can work with them that way. I’m not aware of any projects on the scale you’re thinking of but if I hear of any I’ll let you know.
Any size container is fine for BSF with the main concerns being that you contain the juvenile larvae and that you provide adequate drainage.
Posted 11 Jan 2010 at 10:42 pm ¶Post a Comment