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	<title>Comments on: Black soldier flies are not vectors of human pathogens</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/2008/06/13/bsf-not-vectors-human-pathogens/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/2008/06/13/bsf-not-vectors-human-pathogens/</link>
	<description>Bio-Composting with Black Soldier Fly larvae - Fascinating, Responsible and Rewarding</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 18:16:08 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/2008/06/13/bsf-not-vectors-human-pathogens/comment-page-1/#comment-382</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/?p=128#comment-382</guid>
		<description>Hello erik,

If you separate a portion of the compost from the main pile the BSF will soon cycle out of it assuming you don’t add more food scraps to it. The BSF grubs are there for one reason, food. If the compost is in an open container the grubs will simply leave after any remaining food is consumed. If you want to have more control in removing the grubs from the compost you can use food scraps as bait and capture them using the method I describe &lt;a href=&quot;http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/2008/07/25/collecting-immature-larvae/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello erik,</p>
<p>If you separate a portion of the compost from the main pile the BSF will soon cycle out of it assuming you don’t add more food scraps to it. The BSF grubs are there for one reason, food. If the compost is in an open container the grubs will simply leave after any remaining food is consumed. If you want to have more control in removing the grubs from the compost you can use food scraps as bait and capture them using the method I describe <a href="http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/2008/07/25/collecting-immature-larvae/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: erik hayes</title>
		<link>http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/2008/06/13/bsf-not-vectors-human-pathogens/comment-page-1/#comment-381</link>
		<dc:creator>erik hayes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/?p=128#comment-381</guid>
		<description>quick question.  How do you eventually separate the dirt from the soldier fly larvae?  I have a good population of larvae and would like to use the dirt they are making.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>quick question.  How do you eventually separate the dirt from the soldier fly larvae?  I have a good population of larvae and would like to use the dirt they are making.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/2008/06/13/bsf-not-vectors-human-pathogens/comment-page-1/#comment-362</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/?p=128#comment-362</guid>
		<description>Bill, it certainly could have been eating larvae or maybe BSF eggs. Most BSF eggs get laid in clusters in protected crannies but I also see some being randomly scattered around the walls of my BioPod. The holes in your unit could very well have individual eggs around them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, it certainly could have been eating larvae or maybe BSF eggs. Most BSF eggs get laid in clusters in protected crannies but I also see some being randomly scattered around the walls of my BioPod. The holes in your unit could very well have individual eggs around them.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Miller</title>
		<link>http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/2008/06/13/bsf-not-vectors-human-pathogens/comment-page-1/#comment-361</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/?p=128#comment-361</guid>
		<description>Hi GW, I am visiting the different sights and learning all the while.  Last night in the dark with my light on (my set up is on the porch) I saw a different fly that looked like a cross between a wasp, bsf, and a yellowjacket.  All he was doing besides ignoring me, was checking all the small vent holes out....almost looked like it was eating maybe larvae from around the holes?  Any answers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi GW, I am visiting the different sights and learning all the while.  Last night in the dark with my light on (my set up is on the porch) I saw a different fly that looked like a cross between a wasp, bsf, and a yellowjacket.  All he was doing besides ignoring me, was checking all the small vent holes out&#8230;.almost looked like it was eating maybe larvae from around the holes?  Any answers?</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/2008/06/13/bsf-not-vectors-human-pathogens/comment-page-1/#comment-334</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/?p=128#comment-334</guid>
		<description>Hi don,

Most of the data that I&#039;ve seen referenced is based on studies by Dr. Craig Sheppard and Dr. G. Larry Newton, who have both studied BSF extensively.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Dried black soldier fly (Hermetia illucens) prepupae contain 42% protein and 35% fat (Newton et al. 1977). Live prepupae are 44% dm and are easily dried for long term storage. As a component of a complete diet they have been found to support good growth of chicks (Hale 1973), swine (Newton 1977), rainbow trout (St-Hilaire et al. 2007)) and catfish (Newton et al. 2004). Peer reviewed studies show that prepupae meal can replace at least 25% of the fish meal in a diet with no reduction in gain or feed conversion ratio (FCR) in rainbow trout (St-Hilaire et al. 2007) or channel catfish (Newton et al. 2004). Separation of the prepupae fat and protein would allow for formulation of more balanced diets and produce a meal with over 60% protein. Removal of the chitin would further enhance the protein content and enhance digestibility as well as produce another valuable product. Blind taste tests with tilapia and channel catfish fed diets containing Hermetia larvae indicated no significant difference between those diets and commercial diets (Bondari &amp; Sheppard. 1981).

Omega-3 fatty acids were enhanced in Hermetia prepupae that were fed fish offal mixed with manure (St-Hilaire et al. 2007). Omega-3 fatty acids increased from negligible levels to approximately 3%. This finding raises the possibility of enhancing other nutritional factors in Hermetia prepupae by custom feeding of the growing larvae.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://aquaculture.noaa.gov/pdf/comment_pdf/sheppard.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;SOURCE&lt;/a&gt;

Of course the concentration of fats and protein will be significantly less in fresh larvae. I haven&#039;t seen any studies that recommend a diet consisting of BSF exclusively and I wouldn&#039;t think it&#039;s a good practice to feed any animal such a restricted diet long term. 

I&#039;m sorry I couldn&#039;t provide more information. Perhaps you would share the conflicting reports that you&#039;ve found so that I could follow up on this. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi don,</p>
<p>Most of the data that I&#8217;ve seen referenced is based on studies by Dr. Craig Sheppard and Dr. G. Larry Newton, who have both studied BSF extensively.</p>
<blockquote><p>Dried black soldier fly (Hermetia illucens) prepupae contain 42% protein and 35% fat (Newton et al. 1977). Live prepupae are 44% dm and are easily dried for long term storage. As a component of a complete diet they have been found to support good growth of chicks (Hale 1973), swine (Newton 1977), rainbow trout (St-Hilaire et al. 2007)) and catfish (Newton et al. 2004). Peer reviewed studies show that prepupae meal can replace at least 25% of the fish meal in a diet with no reduction in gain or feed conversion ratio (FCR) in rainbow trout (St-Hilaire et al. 2007) or channel catfish (Newton et al. 2004). Separation of the prepupae fat and protein would allow for formulation of more balanced diets and produce a meal with over 60% protein. Removal of the chitin would further enhance the protein content and enhance digestibility as well as produce another valuable product. Blind taste tests with tilapia and channel catfish fed diets containing Hermetia larvae indicated no significant difference between those diets and commercial diets (Bondari &#038; Sheppard. 1981).</p>
<p>Omega-3 fatty acids were enhanced in Hermetia prepupae that were fed fish offal mixed with manure (St-Hilaire et al. 2007). Omega-3 fatty acids increased from negligible levels to approximately 3%. This finding raises the possibility of enhancing other nutritional factors in Hermetia prepupae by custom feeding of the growing larvae.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://aquaculture.noaa.gov/pdf/comment_pdf/sheppard.pdf" rel="nofollow">SOURCE</a></p>
<p>Of course the concentration of fats and protein will be significantly less in fresh larvae. I haven&#8217;t seen any studies that recommend a diet consisting of BSF exclusively and I wouldn&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a good practice to feed any animal such a restricted diet long term. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry I couldn&#8217;t provide more information. Perhaps you would share the conflicting reports that you&#8217;ve found so that I could follow up on this.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: don wells</title>
		<link>http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/2008/06/13/bsf-not-vectors-human-pathogens/comment-page-1/#comment-333</link>
		<dc:creator>don wells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/?p=128#comment-333</guid>
		<description>Hi Jerry,

I would like to see the actual work done as far as analysis of larvae and nutritional components. I&#039;ve seen what I think is a lot of inaccurate info regarding this in the past. I have read such things as 40 % protein and the occasional 50%? Also fat levels seem to be all over the place and certainly feeding just Soldier fly larvae to insect feeding animals is not a good thing with fat levels so high.If you either have the info someplace else that I can see or can refer me to a place where accurate analysis has been done I would much appreciate it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jerry,</p>
<p>I would like to see the actual work done as far as analysis of larvae and nutritional components. I&#8217;ve seen what I think is a lot of inaccurate info regarding this in the past. I have read such things as 40 % protein and the occasional 50%? Also fat levels seem to be all over the place and certainly feeding just Soldier fly larvae to insect feeding animals is not a good thing with fat levels so high.If you either have the info someplace else that I can see or can refer me to a place where accurate analysis has been done I would much appreciate it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/2008/06/13/bsf-not-vectors-human-pathogens/comment-page-1/#comment-328</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 19:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/?p=128#comment-328</guid>
		<description>Hi Richard, 

Thanks for the nice comments. 

I&#039;m not an expert, but don&#039;t believe there is a problem with using BSF to process human (mammalian) waste and then feeding the resulting grubs to fowl, even if the chickens and eggs are in turn consumed by humans. Of course you should get a more informed opinion before doing it. 

The idea you present is almost exactly what Dr. Paul Olivier, the inventor of the BioPod, has tried to accomplish in Brazil and also in Vietnam. Unfortunately I think he has encountered several difficulties because many people in developing countries want to emulate the US and other modern people. Maybe this &quot;primitive&quot; but elegant technology needs to be embraced in the West before it can be accepted elsewhere. 

You might enjoy this presentation that was put together by Dr. Olivier and others: http://www.esrint.com/pages/bioconversion.html.  You&#039;ll see a reference to a urine diverting toilet at the bottom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Richard, </p>
<p>Thanks for the nice comments. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not an expert, but don&#8217;t believe there is a problem with using BSF to process human (mammalian) waste and then feeding the resulting grubs to fowl, even if the chickens and eggs are in turn consumed by humans. Of course you should get a more informed opinion before doing it. </p>
<p>The idea you present is almost exactly what Dr. Paul Olivier, the inventor of the BioPod, has tried to accomplish in Brazil and also in Vietnam. Unfortunately I think he has encountered several difficulties because many people in developing countries want to emulate the US and other modern people. Maybe this &#8220;primitive&#8221; but elegant technology needs to be embraced in the West before it can be accepted elsewhere. </p>
<p>You might enjoy this presentation that was put together by Dr. Olivier and others: <a href="http://www.esrint.com/pages/bioconversion.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.esrint.com/pages/bioconversion.html</a>.  You&#8217;ll see a reference to a urine diverting toilet at the bottom.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/2008/06/13/bsf-not-vectors-human-pathogens/comment-page-1/#comment-326</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 18:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/?p=128#comment-326</guid>
		<description>Great blog! I am interested in using BSF in a remote third world location to compost human waste.  Do you know if there is any problem using the mature BSF grubs to feed chickens that will be used for eggs and human consumption?  I am thinking that using urine seperating out houses with self harvesting system (directly to the chicken yard) will solve two problems, one is that I won&#039;t have to construct a conventional septic system and the other is that I have a feed source for my chickens.  I intend to use these critters in other parts of our ecological system which includes aquaponics, worms, rabitts, etc.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.   Richard...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great blog! I am interested in using BSF in a remote third world location to compost human waste.  Do you know if there is any problem using the mature BSF grubs to feed chickens that will be used for eggs and human consumption?  I am thinking that using urine seperating out houses with self harvesting system (directly to the chicken yard) will solve two problems, one is that I won&#8217;t have to construct a conventional septic system and the other is that I have a feed source for my chickens.  I intend to use these critters in other parts of our ecological system which includes aquaponics, worms, rabitts, etc.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.   Richard&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/2008/06/13/bsf-not-vectors-human-pathogens/comment-page-1/#comment-320</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/?p=128#comment-320</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the update Steve. I think you&#039;ve been bitten by the BSF bug. (No, BSF don&#039;t bite) :)

BSF love to lay their eggs in the folds of plastic can liners so you&#039;ve really just done them a favor. Whatever you cover the compost with the BSF will simply lay eggs on the outside of it and the tiny hatchlings (1mm X a thread&#039;s thickness) snif out your garbage and crawl inside. BSF want one thing, decomposing food. If you ever decided to discourage them simply limit your composting to grasses, leaves and other high cellulose items which BSF can&#039;t digest. 

Trying to starve the mature grubs is kind of funny because they don&#039;t eat in that stage, they don&#039;t even have a mouth. :D All they want to do is to pupate and emerge as adults for a few days to mate and lay eggs.

Please let us know how the story develops.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the update Steve. I think you&#8217;ve been bitten by the BSF bug. (No, BSF don&#8217;t bite) <img src='http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>BSF love to lay their eggs in the folds of plastic can liners so you&#8217;ve really just done them a favor. Whatever you cover the compost with the BSF will simply lay eggs on the outside of it and the tiny hatchlings (1mm X a thread&#8217;s thickness) snif out your garbage and crawl inside. BSF want one thing, decomposing food. If you ever decided to discourage them simply limit your composting to grasses, leaves and other high cellulose items which BSF can&#8217;t digest. </p>
<p>Trying to starve the mature grubs is kind of funny because they don&#8217;t eat in that stage, they don&#8217;t even have a mouth. <img src='http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />  All they want to do is to pupate and emerge as adults for a few days to mate and lay eggs.</p>
<p>Please let us know how the story develops.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/2008/06/13/bsf-not-vectors-human-pathogens/comment-page-1/#comment-319</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/?p=128#comment-319</guid>
		<description>Hi,
despite my girlfiend not liking the fact that we have hundreds of squirming larvae on our balcony I&#039;ve kept the compost, grubs and all. It really is amazing how quickly they get through the veg waste I put in. In order to stop proliferation I tried sealing off the compost using black plastic bin liners. This doesn&#039;t seem to have had the slightest effect on their population.
I have a drip tray under the compost which fills up every so often with the large mature grubs. I&#039;ve tried starving them and they seem to be (almost) indestructable.
I have now given up on being nasty to them and have decided just to let them be and let them help me make great compost.
Thanks for the advice on obtaining grub free compost, Jerry. If, when I need to use my compost, it&#039;s still grub infested, I&#039;ll use your technique.
Thanks again for the blog and the info. These critters really are quite something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,<br />
despite my girlfiend not liking the fact that we have hundreds of squirming larvae on our balcony I&#8217;ve kept the compost, grubs and all. It really is amazing how quickly they get through the veg waste I put in. In order to stop proliferation I tried sealing off the compost using black plastic bin liners. This doesn&#8217;t seem to have had the slightest effect on their population.<br />
I have a drip tray under the compost which fills up every so often with the large mature grubs. I&#8217;ve tried starving them and they seem to be (almost) indestructable.<br />
I have now given up on being nasty to them and have decided just to let them be and let them help me make great compost.<br />
Thanks for the advice on obtaining grub free compost, Jerry. If, when I need to use my compost, it&#8217;s still grub infested, I&#8217;ll use your technique.<br />
Thanks again for the blog and the info. These critters really are quite something.</p>
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