BSF bucket composter v2.1

(click photos to enlarge)

A full function BSF composter

The second generation of the bucket composter features everything needed for efficient BSF composting on a small scale. The surface area of this design is relatively small which means that you won’t be able to use this unit to process large quantities of waste. My main goal for this design is that of an introductory BSF unit which people can use to learn about black soldier fly larvae behavior and about how to keep a colony in balance. I process only a few ounces of waste per day in this unit and under optimal conditions it might handle one pound (.4kg) per day. A few advantages of a small unit is that it can easily be moved as you find the best location, and there is less temptation to overload it with food scraps, something that I believe is a very common mistake. When you’re ready to try a larger unit you can apply the same construction methods on a larger container or use your knowledge of BSF to design your own.

The design is based on a common 5 gallon bucket with lid, and other easy to find hardware items. I limited myself to new materials that I could find in national chain stores, but you can modify the design to take advantage of what you already have or what you can salvage.

The biggest issue with version 2.0 was that the larvae shredded the filter material. I may experiment with ways to make that first filter work, but for v2.1 I’m testing a synthetic material. All the other changes in this version are for the purpose of tweaking performance.

Measurements

I used the American System of measurements for obvious reasons (I live in America) and any conversions to metric are approximate.

The bucket

The bucket I used is made by Encore Plastics but any brand can work. I like this particular bucket because it’s lightweight which makes it easy to cut the various slits and holes. I chose white because it will stay cooler if any direct sunlight hits it, but they do make a nifty green one.

Lid

Snapping the lid in place isn’t convenient when you’re making regular additions of food scraps or if, like me, you enjoy checking on the progress of your colony several times a day. Also, BSF will often lay eggs in and around where the lid meets the bucket so I try not to disturb it too much. For those reasons I don’t snap the lid down, I just let it rest on the bucket. If you have critters (wild or domestic) that might get into the bucket you can make a fastener with two small bungee cords. Simply lay one bungee across the middle of the other bungee to form an “X” shape, and then tie the bottom cord around the top cord with a square knot. Next tie another square knot with the top cord so that the two are joined in the middle. It takes few seconds to fasten all four hooks but the result is fairly secure. I assume it wouldn’t deter a big raccoon, but it might keep the family dog out.

Ventilation

BSF larvae generate a lot of heat as they metabolize food scraps and other waste. Overheating leads to premature crawl-off of juvenile larvae as they try to escape dangerously high temperatures. BSF larvae perish when their body temperature reaches 113ºF (46ºC) and in most climates the composter should be kept away from any direct sunlight. (Those of you who live in cool climates may find that keeping the unit in partial sunshine could help maintain the optimal internal temperature range) The lid vent doubles as a handle for lifting the lid and in v2.0 I expected it would also be used by BSF females as an entrance when looking for egg laying sites, but I never observed this happening. I increased the size of the vent fitting and pipe to 1½ inches. This may encourage the females to use this as an entrance, but the main purpose is to increase ventilation. In this version I drilled 8 holes, 5/8 inches (16mm) in diameter and equally spaced around the circumference. This is an increase from the previous 3/8 inch holes. Then 4 slits are formed using the 4 pairs of holes making sure that the area directly under the bucket handle is left intact so that it can support the weight of the unit when full. (This added ventilation is important in hot climates such as the southeast where I live, but smaller slits may be fine in cool climates such as Seattle and Vancouver.) Keep the slits close to the overhang to help avoid rain water intrusion into the unit.

I used a razor knife to cut the slits but it’s a dangerous operation. The bucket I use is made of fairly soft plastic but your bucket may be heavier and may require a different technique. If you’re not a confident and experienced do-it-yourself type then please get help with this step. You can opt to use only drilled holes as I did in the first bucket composter version. I recommend practicing on a spare bucket before drilling or cutting the one you intend to use.

Lid vent – I increased the size of the pvc pipe from ¾ inches (19mm) to 1½ inches (38mm). The portion of this upper vent located below the lid offers a handy place to affix a strip of corrugated cardboard which is an attractive egg laying substrate for the BSF. Drill a 2 inch (48mm) hole in the lid, again with a hole saw, to accept the short length of pipe that passes through the lid. A short length of 1½ inch pipe passes through the hole in the lid and into the tee fitting above and a 1½ inch connector fitting* below. This pipe should be short enough to allow the two fitting to touch each other so you get a snug fit on both sides of the lid. Use pvc pipe cement to connect the fittings being careful to keep them under pressure for 15-30 seconds for a tight fit. The pipes that extend out horizontally from the tee are cut at a 45º angle to shield the inside from rain intrusion. It’s not necessary to glue the horizontal pipes in place.

*The length of pvc connectors vary by manufacturer. It’s better to use a shorter fitting because it will allow for better ventilation because the opening to the vent will be higher. You can also cut the connector to achieve this but please be careful if you try this.

The photos above are from version 2.1 and below from version 2.0.

bsf-bucket-v2.0-lid-vent-bushing-cardboard-detail-w female BSF laying in DIY bucket

Larva barrier

Without some method of containing the larvae they could easily escape via the vent holes whenever condensation is present on the inside of the bucket. Water droplets have surface tension which allows the larvae to stick to, and climb the vertical surface. For the past few years I have had success using Velcro as a barrier. The hook part of the “hook and loop” material is best because larvae sometimes become entangled in the hook side of Velcro. If a larva tries to cross a vertical strip of Velcro the raised surface of the hooks breaks the surface tension of the water and the larva falls back to the compost. The previous version used standard black Velcro and this version uses 1 inch wide (2.5cm) “Ultra Thin” “Sticky Back” Velcro. I’ve also had good results with transparent Velcro which is also pictured below. Both the transparent Velcro and the ultra thin are a different design and seem to have better adhesion than the black. I have seen a few dozen larvae defeat the Velcro, but this is a tiny percentage of the many thousands of larvae that I’ve seen contained by it. Even the commercial BioPod allows the occasional larva to escape. I should mention that it isn’t a big problem if a few larvae escape the unit, but overall we want to contain them so that we can have control over the process.

It’s important when applying the Velcro that the surface of the bucket is dry and free of oil or dirt. I avoid touching the sticky back of the Velcro tape by using the point of a razor knife to hold it while I peel off the backing instead of my fingers. Leave expansion gaps in the Velcro because otherwise the different rates of expansion of the bucket and tape will cause it to pull away from the bucket in places leaving spaces that the larvae might fit through. The gaps I leave are small enough that any medium or larger larvae should be prevented from escaping. The small larvae typically don’t try to migrate out of the unit unless it becomes too hot. Even if you’re careful about installing the tape you may see bumps appear. If that happens use a razor knife to cut the area that popped up and convert it to an expansion gap. If you have a problem with adhesion in a larger section then simply cut it away, clean it with alcohol, and fill the gap with a new piece of tape.

Drainage

The most important function of a BSF composter is that it drain excess liquids quickly and thoroughly. Accumulated liquids will starve the compost of oxygen promoting the growth of undesirable anaerobic bacteria. Anaerobic bacteria thrive in material with little or no oxygen and produce foul, sewer-like odors. A properly designed and managed BSF composter has a pleasant earthy aroma; if you smell bad odors it’s a sign that your colony is out of balance. This drainage system consists of a filter medium, a collection area and a drain tube. You may set up your system to drain into the ground or you may collect the liquids via a threaded adapter and cap on the drain tube when convenient. Some people claim that the liquid resulting from BSF composting has value as a fertilizer but I have not tested that theory. I don’t save the liquid.

Drainage tube – There are many possible variations, but the liquids are drained from this bucket via a ¾ inch (19mm) internal diameter vinyl tube fitted to the bucket with common plumbing fittings. I used about 18 inches (45cm) of tubing which allows the user to set the bucket on a raised platform for draining the liquids into a container for disposal. Alternatively you could use whatever length of tubing required to direct the liquid into the ground or a drain.

Update-July 14, 2010 – Initially I didn’t use clamps to secure the drain tubing to the barbed adapters. After a few weeks of use I find that the connection is becoming loose and I will be adding hose clamps to the fittings on both ends of the drain tube.

In this version the drain is placed as low as possible leaving a little space for tightening the “nut” that holds it. You can mark the center of the outlet hole by setting the fitting in place and holding the bucket up to the light to see where the hole would be centered. A 1 inch hole is drilled and a nylon ¾ inch barb-¾ inch male hose adapter is inserted into it. The tubing slips onto the barbed side of the adapter. The threads on the other end are the same size as those found on the male fittings of common garden hoses. I couldn’t find a nut to fit these threads so I made one out of a threaded plastic cap made for garden hoses. I did this by drilling a large hole in the flat side of the cap. It’s a little tricky to do but the result was a tight fitting nut that holds the adapter firmly in place for a watertight seal. An o-ring slipped onto the adapter threads, on the outside of the bucket, will allow a watertight seal.

Liquid waste holding area – Accumulated liquids need an unobstructed area so that they can flow freely. This is achieved by supporting the filter a few inches above the bottom of the bucket. In this version, as in the last, I’m using plastic practice “golf balls” which are inexpensive and effective. You could use a wide variety of materials to accomplish this but I like the fact that the balls are hollow and perforated so most of the space is utilized for holding the liquid waste away from the filter and compost.

Filter – I’ve used coconut fiber (coir) in the past to filter liquids in my original BioPod. It works well unless the larvae expand it and mix it into the compost. You can use coir but you must find a method for keeping it in place. The previous bucket composter used an air conditioning filter material that is made from hog’s hair. This worked well initially, but it ultimately failed for the same reason most filters fail with BSF; the larvae expanded and shredded it. Whatever material is used, the larvae will tend to congregate in it. As they burrow through the filter they expand the fibers, and after a few weeks of this the filter often loses its effectiveness. Coir or the hog’s hair filter from v2.0 will work fine if a method is found for keeping them intact. I considered sandwiching the filter medium between two discs of galvanized wire hardware cloth. I wanted to avoid using metal for fear of it rusting, but I may experiment with this in the future. For this new version I’m testing a synthetic cut-to-fit air conditioner filter. I don’t have a large colony working in this unit yet, but preliminary results look promising. With this new material I did nothing except cut a single disc to fit the bottom of the bucket about 2 inches (50mm) off of the bottom. Hopefully it will remain intact without modifying it or adding other layers, but you have the option of experimenting with wire cloth (¼ inch or larger) or with “quilting” it with a yarn needle and string.

For a template to shape the filter I used a bowl that was the same diameter as the inside of the bucket about two inches from the bottom, where the filter will be installed. It’s important the filter fit tightly against the wall of the bucket so that food scraps don’t fall through. Too big is better than too small.

synthetic-filter-disc-w synthetic-filter-package

UPDATE 7/23/2010 – The filter system I used above gradually failed over a one month period. I believe the modifications needed to resolve the issue are simple. What caused the failure was the effect of the incessant churning action of the larvae. Imagine each individual BSF larvae as a tiny muscle and then multiply that by a colony of many thousand and the collective strength is impressive. I think this filter material will work fine, but it must be contained so that the larvae can’t expand it excessively as they did in the first test. The solution I’ll be testing next is a simple layering of the filter between two rigid meshes. Here I’m using the “egg crate” type panels that are normally used to cover florescent light fixtures in dropped ceilings. Wire mesh (¼ or ½ inch) would also work, but something with small holes like window screen would probably clog too easily. To connect the two rigid pieces I simply tied them together by threading nylon string through the filter with a large yarn needle. I didn’t compress the filter, I just wanted to prevent the larvae from expanding the filter beyond it’s original size.

Optional tap – I also considered ordering a tap like those used on buckets for brewing beer or wine. Those come with a handy nut and gasket and you could probably attach a tube to the outlet for easy dispensing. The only reason I didn’t get one was because it would have added $4-$5 dollars to the cost of the bucket. If you can’t get a water tight seal with the system I used then you might try getting a tap.

Harvest system

Automatic harvesting of the mature larvae is achieved with; a funnel that rests against the bucket wall, which is inserted into a tube, which spirals up to ¾ inch pvc piping, which passes through a hole in the bucket and leads into a collection container. I made the funnel from a generic one gallon plastic water bottle because it is cheap, pliable enough to easily work with and it can be found anywhere. The handle section of the water jug fits snugly inside of the ¾ inch I.D. (internal diameter) vinyl tubing used here. Below the handle section I left portions of two adjacent sides of the bottle which are at right angles from each other. One side will be placed vertically against the bucket wall and the other will be partially buried beneath the compost. As the level of the compost rises the flexible tubing is adjusted accordingly to keep the funnel properly placed at the surface.* Since the funnel and tube will need to be adjusted over time I use a pair of magnets to secure the funnel to the bucket. Magnets can be found at hardware and craft stores. Beware; not all magnets are created equal. It tried using the same size and type magnets from a discount store and they didn’t have nearly the strength as those from the hardware store. Also, I discovered that most Home Depot employees don’t know that they sell magnets. In fact, most of them insisted that they didn’t until I found them myself. They’re in the fastener isle mixed in with the brads. ;)

*To maintain good harvesting it’s important to check the position of the funnel often. The larvae will constantly move the scraps around and if the opening to the funnel gets covered then the larvae will pass it by and continually circle within the bucket. A larva that enters the funnel and tube isn’t “aware” that it is finding a path out of the unit; it simply encounters the funnel entrance as is crawls. Sometimes small adjustments are necessary to keep the opening at the same elevation that migrating larvae are likely to use, which is normally the surface level of the compost.

The photos should make it fairly simple to see what you need to do for the harvest system. It isn’t really necessary to glue all of the pvc fittings since the parts hold together well due to friction. I do recommend gluing the 90º elbow fitting that is inside the bucket to the short length of ¾ inch pipe that passes through the bucket. I would not glue that same short piece of pipe to the outside elbow so that you will be able to remove the assembly for cleaning or storage, etc. For a harvest container you can use anything that has a water tight lid and if your unit will be protected from rain you really don’t even need a lid. In a dry location you could opt to use only a vertical pipe that enters the harvest container through the top. The purpose of the horizontal pipe is to allow a side entry to minimize rain intrusion. The horizontal pipe is angled slightly upwards as it enters the container so that rainwater will run away from the container and not into it. An inch or two of dry sawdust will serve two purposes; it will quiet the larvae by giving them cover and it keeps the larvae dry so they can’t crawl up the sides of the container.

bsf-bucket-v2.0-harvest-system-funnel-with-tube-w bsf-bucket-v2.0-harvest-system-funnel-and-bottle-w

I don’t give exact measurements for the pvc pipe length because it’s not practical to limit the design to one specific harvest container. Almost any container will work, and if you’ll be keeping your unit sheltered from rain then you can even make a straight drop into the container instead of the right angle I used here. The only reason for the last 90º elbow in the run is that it creates an uphill elevation into the harvest container to channel rain water away from it. It isn’t necessary to glue the pipe together so you can cut the pieces a little long and make gradual adjustments until you get the proper fit.

Conclusion

I’m sure I haven’t included every piece of information possible for constructing this composter, but most of it is common sense if you understand what the goals are. I hope that the photos will supply enough information that might be lacking in the text. This unit is cheap enough to build that you can afford to engage in a little trial and error until you get exactly what you want. There are numerous opportunities to hurt yourself constructing this so please be careful. :) People have requested a shopping list and I will do my best to post one in the next few days.

Questions, comments and updates

I want to be clear that I have not tested this composter yet. I believe it will work fairly well as described above but I expect to make changes as I work with it. If you have questions or suggestions please use the comment box located at the bottom of this page. I’m especially interested in variations on the funnel and tubing that directs the larvae into the collection container.

Follow my progress via youtube:

These videos feature version 2.0

DIY black soldier fly bucket composter – part 1

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DIY black soldier fly bucket composter – part 2

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BSF bucket composter April 26 2010

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BSF bucket after two weeks

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Comments 109

  1. Cheryl wrote:

    I am so excited to find your website. I learned about BSF last year when they invaded my compost pile and I went and researched how wonderful they are. Now I have just started a colony in my compost (on purpose this time) and can’t wait to build your 2.1 composter. I was so thrilled when all the BSF started flying around and now I have tons of larvae that are about to need to be harvested!!! I just got some free buckets from my local grocery store bakery and am looking forward to the parts list you will post so I can complete it! I can’t wait to feed them to my hungry chickens! Thanks so much!

    Posted 28 Jun 2010 at 11:50 am
  2. Jerry wrote:

    You’re very welcome Cheryl! :)

    Posted 28 Jun 2010 at 4:26 pm
  3. Bruce Westfall wrote:

    Just wondering if carrion beetles are bad. According to Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_carrion_beetle ) and a few other sources, they feed on fly maggots. I can’t find any info on whether they are detrimental to BSF or not.

    There are some in a bucket I have and if they are harmful to the larvae, any ideas on what to do?

    By the way, thanks for the great blog! I will be building a real bsf bucket soon!

    Posted 28 Jun 2010 at 10:35 pm
  4. injunjoe wrote:

    Great job Jerry. Just to let you know BSF is great food for reptiles.
    I am feeding my turtle and a water dragon BSF as their main diet and they love them. From what I have read they are the most nutritious form of food for the reptiles.

    Posted 30 Jun 2010 at 7:37 am
  5. christopher b wrote:

    By any chance can you email me a parts list for the piping? I. Tried to find most of it at home depot but had no luck on some of the items.

    Thanks!

    Posted 30 Jun 2010 at 1:14 pm
  6. Cheryl wrote:

    I was wondering if I can put oils and fats straight in the colony. Will the BSF larvae eat lard?…..The kids just caught a toad and want to keep it for a little while and I said SURE since we have all this free food! He gobbles the larvae up! YUM! Ha!

    Posted 30 Jun 2010 at 6:21 pm
  7. Jerry wrote:

    Thanks injunjoe,

    My girlfriend is a veterinarian and she’s extremely impressed with the nutritional value of BSF larvae. She highly recommends them to her clients.

    Posted 30 Jun 2010 at 7:21 pm
  8. Jerry wrote:

    Hi christopher b,

    I’m working on a shopping list and I’ll add it to this page in the next day or two. I deleted your email address from your comment because I think there are issues with spambots to consider. The only parts that Home Depot wouldn’t have are the one gallon water jug and the practice golf balls. One item most Home Depot employees don’t know that they sell is magnets. They’re in the fastener isle with the brads.

    Posted 30 Jun 2010 at 7:31 pm
  9. Jerry wrote:

    Hi Cheryl,

    I’ve never fed lard to my colony but I’m sure they would love it. To the best of my knowledge there isn’t anything a human can eat that a BSF larvae can’t or won’t. Of course there are things a person wouldn’t eat that they would such as manure and rotting stuff. ;)

    Have you seen my toad videos?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DO2zBVLoAo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RYykLqKy5c
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6qAch3ngRI

    Posted 30 Jun 2010 at 7:35 pm
  10. Glenn wrote:

    Jerry, Thanks for posting about building your own biopod. Someday when I get the time, I hope to build one. I enjoy reading your blog and because of it, I bought my biopod last year and it is going full blast this year.

    Posted 11 Jul 2010 at 2:53 pm
  11. Jerry wrote:

    I’m glad your enjoying your BSF Glenn! :)

    Posted 11 Jul 2010 at 3:02 pm
  12. Bryon wrote:

    Jerry,
    Could you please email me the shopping list too.
    Question: How often do you put food in for your colony and how much each time?
    Thanks

    Posted 12 Jul 2010 at 1:10 am
  13. Jerry wrote:

    Hi Byron,

    I’ve been super busy for the past few weeks and if you don’t want to wait for me to do it you can simply read through the description above and make the list yourself. Everything that would be on the list is described in detail on this page.

    Posted 12 Jul 2010 at 7:23 am
  14. Jerry wrote:

    Bryon,

    About feeding; When you’re establishing a colony some amount of rotting food is part of it, and will help attract female BSF. Once you’re established then I think a good guideline is to feed the colony only what they will eat (on average) in a day or two. I say “on average” because very soft foods like a tomato should be eaten in a few hours and hard items like a raw potato will take several days. If you see food sitting and becoming more moldy for several days you’re probably overfeeding.

    If you look at the post I wrote about attracting BSF with fermented corn you’ll see that I favor that or other fermented foods as an attractant over table scraps. You can’t easily use that method in the composter because the liquids that are needed for the fermentation will drain away. Something that might solve that would be to place a smaller container with the fermented material inside of the bucket. That way it can stay wet consistently. Eventually the wet corn or other attractant will become populated with BSF and at that point you can empty it onto the filter and let the liquids drain away. At that point you could begin adding small amounts of table scraps, increasing the quantity as the colony grows.

    Posted 12 Jul 2010 at 10:27 am
  15. Bryon wrote:

    Thanks for the advice Jerry. I figured you might come back with the dont be lazy, I already told you everything you need just read. I plan on buying the stuff to build it today and I already have some food out trying to collect some eggs. I will definatly get some corn and follow that advice as well. Thanks for all your help. I will keep you posted.

    Posted 12 Jul 2010 at 2:35 pm
  16. George wrote:

    I recently built my first bucket and it still needs work. The flies were amazingly easy to attract and cultivate in North Florida. I also harvested a couple of hundred larvae and tried them for fish bait – they worked very well. At some point I intend to feed BSF larvae to fish and chickens. Thanks for the info.

    Posted 13 Jul 2010 at 10:34 pm
  17. Cathy Williams wrote:

    Jerry, this is exactly what I’ve been looking for. A little over a year ago our animal ordinance was modified to allow urban hens. I along with another friend worked 18 mo. lobbying city council and we were successful. Since then I have hosted a monthly group POtCLuCk that meets once a month to share local resources and provide education. I want to share your fabulous design with them. Organic feed costs are astronomical ($35/50 lbs.) so I am diligently working on other ways us do-it-yourselfers can provide economical nutritional protein/food for our girls. I’m inclined to see if I could purchase an already made one from you but I’m reluctant since you haven’t done any testing on this model yourself. Any luck in that department? Best, Cathy, Asheville, NC.
    http://www.motherhenconsulting.com
    facebook: Mother Hen’s Chicken Club
    facebook: Asheville City Chickens

    Posted 14 Jul 2010 at 10:12 pm
  18. Jerry wrote:

    Hi Cathy,

    Congratulations on your success with the bureaucrats!

    I’ve been testing this design for a few weeks and it’s functioning well. I still might try some variations on the filter but the current one is still draining fine. I’ve had a few small larvae escape via the expansion gaps in the Velcro so I’ve narrowed the gap to almost nothing. Also, it’s necessary to make regular adjustments to the harvest tube position, but it’s a quick and simple adjustment. This DIY unit might not rival the efficiency and convenience of the commercially produced BioPod but it does what it’s intended to do pretty well.

    I hate to promise anything because I’ve been very busy with family stuff lately, but if you’re interested I’ll do my best to come up with a price for a finished composter. I’m also planning a 10 gallon version based on a little Brute garbage can although the cost of the can alone is $25.

    I love what you’re doing and wish you well.

    Posted 14 Jul 2010 at 10:42 pm
  19. Cathy Williams wrote:

    Hi Jerry,
    I’ve been talking with my neighbor who is a metal fabricator/welder and together we’re going to tackle making one of yours. However, don’t hesitate to send me an off-line message about pricing, shipping, etc. I live in a community where your worm making machine would be quite popular!
    Thanks for the props for our efforts to cut through the bureaucrat b.s. but it took almost 2 years. Boy what a great feeling when it did pass! Now we have over 550 facebook friends on Asheville City CHickens. Join us!

    Posted 18 Jul 2010 at 2:16 pm
  20. Jerry wrote:

    Cathy,

    With skilled help available I doubt it makes sense for you to buy/ship one that I made. Please let me know if you have any fabrication questions or suggestions.

    Thanks for the facebook invitation, but I don’t participate in any online social networking at this time. :)

    Posted 18 Jul 2010 at 2:30 pm
  21. Beth wrote:

    Can the black soldier fly eat meat as well? Thinking about using it for scraps from hunting.

    Posted 21 Jul 2010 at 2:13 am
  22. Jenn wrote:

    Help!! My BSF population has begun to take off, and I now see constant adult activity around the bucket. Well, obviously, the increase in population caused an increase in feeding and waste. I have been making sure that they are able to eat the scraps within a day assuming this meant that I wasn’t overfeeding, and did realize that the waste had become thicker and more “sludge-like,” which I attributed to more grubs. However, what I did not notice was that, because it is so much thicker (I am guessing), things are not draining like they should-not sure how long this has been going on, but I am thinking several days. Anyhow, today I went to add scraps to the bucket and noticed it was VERY wet and not smelling great. (I also had about 10 adults flying out of the bucket, which thrilled me, until I realized why!) I moved the bucket to a new spot where I could tilt it to try and improve drainage from the tubing and began to try and mix in some shredded paper (cross cut) to absorb the moisture. The minute I disturbed the surface, the smell was overwhelming. I am talking about a stomach turning event! I turned in a large amount of paper (while holding my breath) along with a bit of dry bread. This morning I checked and the only difference is I can smell it from a distance now. I know that this means things are completely out of whack, but I am not sure what to do. Once I saw the population increase, I removed the golf ball that I mentioned in an earlier post. Things are barely draining. I think it is so thick in there that I have gummed everything up. In hindsight, I am guessing that I should have completely cleaned the bucket yesterday and strained the larvae to start fresh. The problem is that now that I added the bits of paper, I don’t think that will work! My daughter also saw some coffee and strawberries out last night, and out of habit tossed them in the bucket (more wet items-lucky me). I have TONS of eggs all over the bucket and velcro (this is the favorite place to lay eggs lately), and don’t want to rinse them away. What can I do? This is a truly horrible smell! If I don’t figure this out, my family may revolt-assuming the neighbors don’t first! I spent much of last night searching online. I saw a recommendation to add flour products, but think I may end up with paper mache at this point! I also clearly need to work out this drainage issue long term. I teach kindergarten and was so hoping to set something small up outside for my class to put some snack scraps in to teach the kids about BSF, but will have MAJOR problems with co-workers and parents if I repeat the issues I am having with my home system. Please tell me what to do-I have created a monster!

    Posted 22 Jul 2010 at 8:27 am
  23. Jerry wrote:

    Hi Jenn,

    Thanks for reporting this issue; this is how we can refine our equipment and techniques. Below I will list some general concepts you may or may not be aware of, as well as some new ideas inspired by your current situation:

    Don’t overfeed – The bucket composter is a relatively small BSF unit which can only process a few ounces of waste per day, maybe up to one pound (.5kg) if carefully managed. Rule of thumb; don’t add more waste than can be consumed in one or two days on average. The shape of a common bucket isn’t ideal for what we’re doing with it. I believe the key factor that determines the volume of waste a unit can handle is surface area and we don’t have much with this design. I should make it clear that this unit is not intended to be a workhorse, it’s more a tool for learning about BSF.

    Drainage drainage drainage – The unit must drain well. :) Just today I found that the system I’ve been using in version 2.1 for about a month is gradually failing. This wasn’t exactly a failure of the filter medium which is still in a condition to filter liquids; the problem is in the support system which, in this version is done with plastic golf balls. Due to the constant churning of the larvae the golf balls are mixing with the filter medium. I suspect this arrangement would still filter adequately for a while, but at this point I’m going to test some type of disc to support the filter. I will probably continue to use the golf balls or some similar items to create the liquid collection area, but I will insert a porous disc on top of them. I may also use an additional disc on top of the filter medium to help minimize expansion.

    I think that we may not be able to rely solely on a filter material for adequate drainage; it may be necessary to monitor and adjust the content and consistency of the waste material itself. BSF larvae can’t eat wood shavings but I add them to my unit because I believe they work as a moisture buffer and they might also effect the texture of the waste in a way that improves drainage. It just now occurred to me that ground corn cob might be even more effective than wood shavings because of its sponge-like texture. Corn cob might facilitate better drainage and also result in better aeration of the waste. The need for, and quantity of cob or wood shavings will vary with each unit because the waste is different in each.

    Jenn, based on the above information I suggest that you:

    *Remove the waste from the unit and modify the drainage system. If you don’t get a clear picture from my description above for the filter send me an email and I’ll go into more detail. I hope to add a new description and photos for the modified design on the composter page today or tomorrow. I think we’re seeing the development of version 2.2. :)

    *Mix corn cob bedding into the waste. I know you can buy it at pet stores, and I hope to find it cheaper, maybe through feed stores. I can’t tell you how much to use but you can start out conservatively and add more if needed. I would also add an inch or two (40mm) directly on top of the filter material before to return the waste to the unit.

    *You might consider adding only a portion of the waste back into the unit since it’s clearly anaerobic.

    *Stop or reduce the addition of new waste to the unit until the bad odor (anaerobic bacteria) is under control.

    It might have been nice if everything had gone perfectly with your attempt to use the current design, but I’m glad you took the time to report the problems since we both have an opportunity to learn from them.

    Thanks!

    Posted 22 Jul 2010 at 11:54 am
  24. John wrote:

    Do you find that you have problems with wasps building hives in your BSF system?

    Posted 22 Jul 2010 at 11:11 pm
  25. Jerry wrote:

    Hi John,

    I’ve never heard of wasps building a hive in a BSF unit or seen any that appeared interested in doing so. Have you seen this?

    Posted 23 Jul 2010 at 7:02 am
  26. Stephen wrote:

    First let me thank you for having so much information on your blog about the BSF. This is a great source of information. I am starting to work on building a system like you have here and was wondering why you don’t put the drain on the bottom of the bucket and put the bucket up off the ground on cinder blocks, etc.? I looked at some of your earlier versions and it didn’t seem like you’ve tried that yet.

    Also, rather than trying to attract the natural BSF in my area, do you know of a place I can purchase a start-up colony? Is that something you sell? I’ve spoken with some of the entomologists at the local university and they are not sure how prevalent BSF are in my area.

    Thanks for the information. And thanks again for a great source of information about BSF.

    Posted 23 Jul 2010 at 9:52 am
  27. John wrote:

    I was wondering the same thing about putting a drain at the bottom and setting it up a bit using bricks or something like that.

    Posted 23 Jul 2010 at 1:57 pm
  28. Jerry wrote:

    Hi Stephen,

    I’m glad you like the blog and I’m glad you’re going to build your own unit. I’ve made units with bottom drains and the only drawback is that you can’t move them around easily. I take this bucket composter with me if I go to visit family for more than a few days. I can just grab it by the handle and throw it my truck and go. I also don’t think there would be much advantage in having the outlet on the bottom. The set up pictured here drains down to about 1/4 inch. A bottom drain would require some type of nut or fitting to secure it so you would still have some standing liquid. With the side outlet you can empty most of the liquid simply by tipping the bucket a few degrees. Either method is fine, but I bet that if you can move your bucket around easily that you would end up doing just that.

    We normally do sell starter kits but we had to stop this year because of family issues. I’m guardian to my stepfather and power of attorney for my mother and issues just keep coming lately. There are broken bones, e. coli infections, MERSA, bleeding brains, house to buy, houses to sell, and investments to make. I hate to stop selling kits but I’m on the road so frequently that I can’t do it well. Hopefully things will settle down soon and I can focus on BSF stuff more. That’s probably more than you need to know but it felt good to type it out. :)

    Posted 23 Jul 2010 at 3:17 pm
  29. Bruce Westfall wrote:

    Wow Jerry. I hope things can get back to normal for you somehow. In the meantime, it’s great you can take care of your family.

    Now a seemingly meaningless question, based on orders of importance, but there is something I can’t quite figure out.

    Why is there a tube ramp to let out grubs, but also a velcro strip to keep them from escaping?? Is there something about older grubs that causes them to use the ramp, whereas younger ones should not crawl up the sides?

    Perhaps it is just for ease of collection… Maybe that is it.

    Thanks for taking time out of your very busy and important schedule to consider this question. And thanks very much for the best source online for BSF!

    Posted 24 Jul 2010 at 5:38 pm
  30. John wrote:

    Hi Jerry, wanted to update on the situation here in Central Texas. The non-linearity of the BSF numbers is a sight to behold, I’m feeding a thousand a day to my small flock of chickens and there’s at least 20 females (BSF’s) laying eggs when I’m out there in the mid-afternoon. So as the numbers have grown I have had to split the bins and create new ones to keep the temperature down a bit along with modulating the feed cycle – mostly feeding at night when it’s cooler. I’m using alot of stale grains that I had around and ferment them in a bucket with water for a few days or longer and then just spread them out over the top. Just have to be careful that the females can’t get into that or some of them manage to drown. The grains help when I run out of fruit and veggie scraps. I think they run a bit hotter when they’re feeding on grain. One bin hit 112 today and I tossed half the bin into another empty one and dug down in the hot one and mixed everything up. That brought it down to 104. They were really clustering up in the corners and all over the surface trying to cool off prior to the intervention. For a drying action I’ve been using some crushed coir from the compressed bricks as a layer on top of the food and dry oatmeal occasionally. There’s very little liquid coming out of the bins and they have a distinct rich earthy sweetish smell. It really has been easy to let them crawl off out a hole or two down near the bottom on the end side. There’s always a few immature ones each morning in the catch-buckets but it seems like it’s less than 5 percent of the daily catch. I did a count on the percentage that hatched out but I lost track of it around 25 percent and had a container of mature grubs labelled “old guys” that were at least a month old and recently got a bunch of flies emerge from there. One morning there were 8 of them waiting to be released. Yeah, I’ve gone nuts on this and bring the pupation containers inside at night just to be sure. I’ve tried to estimate how many grubs are in each bin but it gets increasingly difficult as each days laying outpaces my ability to feed that many to my 5 birds. I’m going to start seeding my neighbors with fully functioning bins outfitted with a few features for security against predators and a sure fire way to get them to lay where I want along the inside upper edge of the bin. I’m using the big black tubs from Home Depot as I mentioned last time. I’ve got them tilted up on cinder blocks and leave the tops open all day. At night I put a 1×2 frame with 1/4 inch hardware cloth stapled on it over the top and clamp it down in 4 places. No more raccoon problems, plus they stay cooler and there’s no moisture build up on the walls enabling crawl-off in that direction. Whenever there isn’t sufficient crawl-off to feed the birds I just put a couple of handfuls of immature grubs from the bins into a deep fry strainer with fairly large holes and shake it for a bit to let the smaller ones fall through back into the bin. So presently I’ve got 6 bins going and figure to ramp it up as the food scrap supply increases. My feed store guy is going to give me the stuff they normally throw away due to being out of date or broken packages. He’s got 300 pounds sitting there right now and more each week. That might be a good avenue for anyone thinking about going beyond what they can generate from their own kitchen. He’s been throwing this stuff in the dumpster for years. I’d be keen to hear if there is any downside to feeding scrap animal feed that is not made with animal byproducts or laced with medication. Once I get it all pretty enough to take a picture of I’ll send it along. Thanks for all the info and our prayers are with you on your caretaking of family members. Best regards, John

    Posted 24 Jul 2010 at 11:32 pm
  31. Jerry wrote:

    Hi Bruce,

    Thanks for the kind words. Even with all of the turmoil, my family and I have a lot to be thankful for and we’re making progress. My favorite thing to do is to discuss BSF so it’s no imposition.

    “Is there something about older grubs that causes them to use the ramp, whereas younger ones should not crawl up the sides?”

    Yes, mature (dark) larvae are programmed by nature to migrate away from the food source in search of a safe, dry place to pupate. This behavior allows us to design self-harvest mechanisms for the mature larvae. Theoretically, the juvenile larvae stay in the food source since they still need to grow, however in practice they tend to migrate also. We want to harvest the mature larvae which don’t eat in that stage, and to contain the juvenile larvae in our unit to consume waste. There are a few reasons why juvenile larvae might try to exit the unit with the main reason being overheating. In that case the harvest ramp serves as a safety exit, and having been collected the juveniles can be added back to the unit once it cools down. Juveniles might also try to exit for reasons I’m not certain about like overcrowding. If I see a lot of juveniles in the harvest container (not from overheating) I will often remove them from the system. The bottom line is control; we want to contain the larvae for the most part, and when they exit we want them to end up in our container, not on the ground.

    All that was a long way to say that your assumptions were correct. :)

    Posted 26 Jul 2010 at 8:06 am
  32. Jerry wrote:

    Thanks for the great report John!

    I’m impressed with the numbers you’re seeing; I think you have a larger native population in your area than I have in mine. You can freeze the larvae to use as future chicken feed when you have excess if you have the freezer space, just put them right next to the pork chops. :) Thanks for the suggestion about getting discarded feed from the feed store, I’m going to check with my local store and see if I can do the same. I look forward to seeing photos of your, now very large BSF ranch.

    Posted 26 Jul 2010 at 8:15 am
  33. Cheryl wrote:

    Hi Jerry,

    Well I can’t seem to get my husband to help me build a version of your composter. He is so good at that sort of thing and I am not, but he is so busy. Right now I just have 4 big plastic rectangular tubs that I am keeping the larvae in which I keep tilted so the mature ones can crawl out into a container (metal rabbit cage bottom). I’m keeping a big kids plastic pool over them to keep out the rain. I do have eggs being laid at the tops of the containers in the little handle crevices. I know it is not the proper set up as it is too wet and a little stinky at times. I’m sure it is not very efficient, but I am getting quit a bit each day for my chickens. Maybe one day I can get my hubby to put it on his honey do list. :)

    I have a question about feeding chickens…..John, maybe you can answer this. I am new to owning chickens and of course none of the books on chicken raising mention BSFL as feed. I’m just wondering how much of their diet can be the BSF and how much you should supplement with other things like grain or regular chicken feed.

    So sorry for your family stress Jerry. Sending up prayers that they will get better soon!

    Cheryl in Longview, TX

    Posted 26 Jul 2010 at 3:43 pm
  34. John wrote:

    Hi Cheryl,

    Enjoyed reading about your creative BSF adaptations! I’m pretty new to chickens also – we got our first batch about a year ago. We used to free range them from dawn to dusk but lost a bunch to fox and coons so now they’re in large enclosed yards that adjoin their coops. When they were out and about I got to see how many insects they eat – alot – which is why I was excited to learn of the BSF as a food source now that they’re in their new accomodations.

    I still free feed a mix of grains and seeds from the bulk aisle at the local health food store and some commercial feed for the probiotics and minerals. I think they eat at least 50 percent grubs at this point and probably higher. I haven’t yet found a portion size on the grubs where they leave any behind uneaten – they really love ‘em. I feed both mature grubs to them as well as larger-sized immature ones depending on the amount of crawl-off that day. I try to save half of the mature ones for fly production.

    I’m sure that professional chicken producers would have something to say about the high protein level of the BSF and its relationship to the moulting cycle but I haven’t gotten there yet. What I do know is that the egg yolks are getting a deeper color of orange and the shells are stronger. There is definitely a nutritional value that they were not getting from their dry feed – even when I’d sprout portions of it for them by soaking it for a day or two – which packs a punch in its own way.

    The chickens raised by Joel Salatin eat a ton of fly larvae since they move the chicken tractors regularly over areas where cattle have been recently and the chickens tear up the cowpies for the larvae. He grows out his meat birds in 8 to 12 weeks and they’re out there on pasture all the time – so I’m assuming it’s one of those things where it’s ok to let the birds decide because I figure his operation has no practical way to regulate how many larvae they eat.

    I’ll put a response to Jerry here too if that’s ok. My neighbors who are avid long-time gardeners have all mentioned that they’ve never seen so many grubs in their compost piles and worm bins. So I think this must be just a really good year weather-wise for the BSF in this area. Last year Hays County was the epicenter of the drought nationwide and we had around 70 consecutive days of 100 degrees and up.

    Have fun with those chickens!!

    John in Driftwood, TX

    Posted 26 Jul 2010 at 7:34 pm
  35. John (Driftwood, TX) wrote:

    Hi Jerry, a buddy of mine took a picture with his new phone today and I managed to get it up on Picasa Web Album (whew!)

    You can’t really tell from the picture but the grubs in the gutter are heavily clustered at each end and I’m estimating 800 to 1000 overnight crawl-off. I’m going to count and weigh them tonight for a sense of input/output dynamics.

    One of the bins is presently empty and another has no crawl-off hole (experiment in progress), so all of those dudes came from 4 bins. The gutter is 10 feet long and it’s removable so I can take off one end cap and tip them all into a bucket.

    The little hoop structure cost 120 bucks and is 12×12. I’m going to do the same thing on the other side over the next few weeks for a total of 12 bins with a 4 foot walkway down the middle.

    I’m thinking of winter already since it gets down to 20 degrees F occasionally here. What I might do since my wife probably won’t let me bring 12 bins in the house is build a big box out of structural insulated panels. SIP’s have very strong plywood on each side sandwiching a dense insulative foam that can range from 4 inch to 12 inch thick. Line the inside with heat tape like we used to use on water pipes up in Michigan and bingo – a cheap way to stash the bins for three months.

    I’m looking forward to all the wintering ideas that are sure to surface as we get closer to the season.

    Adios,
    John

    Posted 27 Jul 2010 at 6:50 pm
  36. Bryon wrote:

    Wow John, that is quite the set up.
    Jerry,
    I built the BSF bucket a little over two weeks ago. I had put out some food in buckets and even the corn several weeks ago in hope to attract some BSF’s. I went to take the trash out a week ago and found alot of BSF’s in the trash. I transfered them to my bin in hopes it would help attract the adults. I have had it sitting in the wood line by the corn to help attract the BSF’s. The only thing I attracted was a large brown spider in my harvest bucket getting free meals. I decided to move my bucket by the trash can since that is where I have seen them. I checked my bucket today and there were two adults laying eggs in the cardboard. Just had to find the right place to put it I guess. I will keep you up to date.

    Posted 28 Jul 2010 at 1:40 pm
  37. Jerry wrote:

    Hi Cheryl,

    I’m sorry to hear that hubby is too busy to build a composter. I know exactly how that is.

    The most likely reason you’re getting bad odors is the growth of anaerobic bacteria. A lot of liquid is released as BSF rapidly break down food scraps and the flooding starves the bottom layer of oxygen. If you can work out some type of system with good drainage it should improve this problem. I’m also experimenting with corn cob bedding mixed into my BSF units as a moisture buffer. You might try adding some to yours as it can’t hurt and it’s pretty cheap.

    I don’t know about limits for feeding BSF to chickens. In nature it’s not likely that any bird would have an unlimited supply of fly larvae so I would err on the side of caution. I imagine the best scenario for chickens is a varied diet and from what I’ve seen they might eat excessive amounts of BSF larvae if allowed to. I’m not sure what that means in terms of numbers of larvae per chicken; I’ve fed more than 30 larvae to fish only 5-6 inches long, and our peacocks can eat 100 as fast as you can throw them. If I find any tests that give hard data about this I’ll post it. In the meantime you might find the following study interesting: http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/waste_mgt/smithfield_projects/phase2report05/cd,web%20files/A2.pdf

    Posted 31 Jul 2010 at 12:37 pm
  38. Jerry wrote:

    John,

    Thanks for sharing your cool BSF system. Judging from the amount of surface area you have I think you’ll see far more than 1000 larvae (about 2 cups) being harvested per day at some point.

    For holding larvae through the winter you’ll need to decide to feed them or not to because the set up will be different. Either way you won’t need much insulation with such mild winters. If you keep the whole area too warm you might trick the larvae into pupation and premature emergence. If you choose not to feed then cooler temps might be better, as long as the larvae don’t freeze. Maybe this year we can get a good discussion going about winter BSF strategies.

    Posted 31 Jul 2010 at 1:45 pm
  39. Jerry wrote:

    Hi Bryon,

    Moving the BSF unit next to the garbage was clearly a good strategy. While you’re trying to build up a colony it’s good to reduce competition from other eggs laying sites like the garbage can. You need the unit to be the most attractive food source so you might want to keep the garbage can in a garage or shed during the afternoon when most egg laying happens. Now that you’ve seen BSF laying in your unit it’s only a matter of time before you have a good colony going. Thanks for the update!

    Posted 31 Jul 2010 at 1:52 pm
  40. Connie wrote:

    Jerry -
    Your instructions/level of detail are incredible – thank you so much for all this effort.
    I completed my BSF unit yesterday and brought it to a gathering this morning – everyone was really impressed, especially by the cost compared to the biopod that the host had.
    It took me longer to run get the supplies (multiple trips since I wasn’t organized) than it did to put it together.
    The only thing I’m not happy about is the “ramp” to the outside. I bought clear plastic tube that is two big – it isn’t really flexible…
    have you experimented with other ramp material? I envision taking a styrofoam (or other similar material) disk, cutting a 1″ strip and gluing that to the side of the bucket – do you think it would hold up?

    Posted 31 Jul 2010 at 6:04 pm
  41. Jerry wrote:

    Hi Connie,

    It’s great to hear about people trying out my design. Please keep in mind that this unit is very small compared to the BioPod. It can probably handle a few ounces of waste per day, maybe close to one pound under optimal conditions. The main point of this design is to serve as an introduction to BSF culturing. Of course the principles used to make this unit can be used on a larger unit as well. I need to add that information to the composter page…

    The harvest ramp is always the trickiest part. I’ve tried using adhesives on several different versions but the larvae and the environmental conditions have always caused them to fail. The fact is that most adhesives don’t work well on polyethylene and polypropylene. Uneven rates of expansion combined with a damp environment and the aggressive digging of the larvae all work against the adhesives. I did some research and found a few adhesives that I think would work but the cost was extremely high. Styrofoam would definitely not work because the larvae would shred it easily, even if you managed to attach it. The best way I can describe a colony of BSF larvae is that it’s like several thousand little muscles armed with crowbars and the desire to separate anything they come across. :)

    Actually, I’ve thought about using larger diameter tubing because sometimes I see a “traffic jam” in the ¾ inch tube used in this version. The main problem is finding an adequate funnel to replace the water jug handle. You can lessen the congestion issue by keeping the angle of the tube as steep as possible but not so steep that the larvae can’t climb it.

    I’ve used pvc pipes cut in half lengthwise on rectangular storage bin units, but this requires more skill with tools and there is still the issue of attaching them. I have a few untested ideas that I hope to work on this winter.

    Posted 31 Jul 2010 at 6:34 pm
  42. Matt Baillie wrote:

    Hello,

    Firstly, thank you for a very informative site.

    I am very interested in setting up a BSF composter in the UK, but this presents a few problems I would appreciate your views on.

    The main problem is that BSFs are not common here, and attracting them at all, let alone consistently, will be very difficult. There are larvae commercially available (imported from the US and sold as livefood for reptiles and other exotic pets, which is my main area of interest), but in order to make this work, it would presumably be necessary to make a totally enclosed system in which some flies were allowed to hatch.

    The second is our climate, which would not seem entirely conducive to BSF culturing.

    Any suggestions as to how to modify this for use in the UK (and indeed other countries where BSFs are not native, or very scarce, or even use indoors?) much appreciated.

    Cheers,

    Matt (Reading, UK)

    Posted 01 Aug 2010 at 3:48 am
  43. Jerry wrote:

    Hi Matt,

    Your climate may not be ideal for BSF, but it looks very similar to Vancouver, B.C. which is known to have wild BSF. Although a few people have succeeded in raising BSF indoors it would require specialized equipment and effort. I couldn’t help you with that because I’ve only worked with open systems in an area rich in BSF. I’m fairly sure you could raise BSF outdoors where you live but you would only have a short time during the summer for reproduction. You can store larvae through the cold season, but you would need to focus on building the largest colony possible in a few months. BSF fair best in strong sunlight so a greenhouse would be great or you could possibly work in a screened area. Ideally you should get wild BSF from the Pacific Northwest. I assume the BSF which have established in that area would be conditioned to your climate, but I don’t know of a source for them. I believe you can find a way to culture BSF, the question is how much time and energy will you need to invest and will it be worth the trouble. Please keep us posted on your progress if you give this a try.

    Posted 01 Aug 2010 at 9:05 am
  44. John (Driftwood TX) wrote:

    Hi Jerry – thanks for the heads-up on the research pdf, that was very interesting and got me to question my previous assumptions about how many to feed my chickens.

    After reading your comment to Cheryl regarding how many larvae a bird might encounter in a natural setting I talked to a neighbor who had cattle and chickens on her place years ago. She said that there really aren’t that many larvae in a cowpie – so I’m going to research some more on the question and back off from the 50% feeding for now. I did run across a thread from years ago where one of the posters said no more than 25% was advisable but didn’t cite any references.

    Last nights crawl-off was 27 ounces – which at 180 grubs per ounce is nearly 5,000 grubs. I was pleasantly surprised this morning, after a late night of dancing at the historic Albert Dance Hall. How lucky we are to have insects working 24/7 on our behalf.

    The other day when I took the picture I hand counted the yield and it was 1,264 and I put them in a baggie to weigh them. A neighbor dropped over and she put the baggie to her ear and got this really serene look, so I did it and it is the coolest, silkiest white-noise you ever heard. The next day when I had more grubs I filled two baggies and did both ears – all I can say is WOW. My feed store buddy was just over here minutes ago and tried it and he didn’t put the baggies down for at least 3 minutes – with a big grin on his face from the first moment. I think I’m going to get it recorded and make a CD. I’ll send you one when it’s done.

    Y’all have a great summer,
    John

    Posted 01 Aug 2010 at 12:52 pm
  45. Jerry wrote:

    Thanks for a great mental image John! :) It’s always nice to hear from others who are enthusiastic about BSF. I haven’t tried the larvae-headphones approach, but if it’s quiet outside you can often hear what sounds like rain falling by closely listening to your colony at work.

    Posted 01 Aug 2010 at 1:02 pm
  46. Daniel Brothers wrote:

    Hey Jerry, Great website… Great information. Are there other things you can use instead of velcro…in either round or rectangle containers. Maybe angle tubing of some type… or will they crawl over and around a lip…? Got any other ideas? thanks.. Dan

    Posted 06 Aug 2010 at 2:18 pm
  47. Daniel wrote:

    Oh… I forgot to say that I use damp chicken starter to draw in momma …. she is on it in 2-3 days. Eggs quickly appear and the larvae swarm the chicken starter when I feed them with it. But I can’t keep feeding them that stuff… to costly, but it makes for a great starter. thanks…..Dan

    Posted 06 Aug 2010 at 2:29 pm
  48. Jerry wrote:

    Hi Daniel,

    I’ve thought about using angle as a larva barrier but the problem is adhering it. Of course it isn’t practical for a round container, but most rectangular containers have round corners so you still need to address those areas. The Velcro isn’t 100% effective but it’s pretty good considering how quick and simple it is to install.

    Posted 06 Aug 2010 at 4:03 pm
  49. Bob wrote:

    Hey Jerry, a quick update. I tried the window screen and it does not appear to be clogging. It looks like the larvae both tunnel to the bottom making drainage paths and churn the feed to the edges and the liquid on top drains off there. There is an issue with larvae in the liquid, but the ones that don’t drown (if any do) can crawl out at the corners as the screen isn’t sealed to the sides. It’s more of a net pudding cloth supported off the liquid trap by a wooden frame.

    The drainage and ventilation dramatically reduced odor, even with liquid puddled on the bottom several inches deep when I moved the bin and set the drain uphill for a week.

    This bin is too small and too much fine solid waste is going out with the liquid, ( I need to control nitrogen levels in the compost ) so I’m converting the old 55gal drum end bin to a filter sim to yours, but sandwiched in hardware cloth and 2 layers of filter and adding the harvest tube. It is on a tripod to give a convenient work height and allow ant control (axle grease on the legs and an occasional spritz of hot shot when I’m too busy/lazy to re-grease) so I can use the bung to bottom drain into the compost heap.

    I’m thinking of trying a chunk of old hose with a piece of hard steel cable inside as a spring to act as a bug-stop.

    Re the magnets for the escape funnel (was that a pun?) try old hard drives. Free, not too hard to take apart and immensely strong, esp if you leave the backing plate on. It may tale a few tries to get some with flat backing plates, some have tabs bent up at the ends, but then you have more of the things to play with. They are great for sticking notes around doorways and sealing/blacking out windows if you have steel corner bead in your drywall.

    John- Great setup, I love the humor and the headphones too. If you keep expanding, you’ll have to replace your bins with bedliners, which btw make great weather covers. I get mine new from a local dealer’s clearance at $20 each and also all the ones I can scrounge. A bed-coating place sells used ones..for the same price. Go figure. You can put a 2x frame at the end, then a plywood tailgate covered in plastic and sealed in with deck screws and silicone caulk, if the plastic is kept very well shaded.

    Someone mentioned wasps, Ive had a few yellow-jackets in mine several times, I think the fruit attract them. I remember a study that said available sugar peaks very closely with alcohols in rotting fruit (yes, it was a drunken monkey/parrot study) and the alcohol seems to attract nearly everyone in the neighborhood.

    Happy Monday everyone!

    Bob

    Posted 09 Aug 2010 at 1:48 am
  50. Jerry wrote:

    Hi Bob,

    Thanks for the detailed update. I’m glad to hear that the improved drainage and ventilation worked for you.

    I’m glad you’re testing window screen as part of the filter, but I still have doubts about it. I’ve learned from my own efforts that something which seems to working fine for a month or two can still fail as conditions change in the unit. Presently your small larvae are keeping the screen open, but that might not be the case as the level of waste rises or as some other factor changes. On the other hand I hope that it works over time because it would represent another tool we can use for BSF culturing.

    Thanks again for sharing your experience, I hope you’ll keep it coming.

    Posted 09 Aug 2010 at 8:12 am
  51. Bryon wrote:

    Ok,
    Are the husks of the adult larva that I am finding in my bucket adults that have turned into flys or are they dead ones that have died?
    Bryon

    Posted 09 Aug 2010 at 5:13 pm
  52. Jerry wrote:

    Bryon,

    What you’re describing sounds like the cast off skins that remain after the larvae progress from one stage (instar) to the next. BSF have six instars and I believe that includes the final mature stage (pre-pupal) when they turn dark and stop eating.

    Posted 09 Aug 2010 at 6:46 pm
  53. Steve (in Fresno) wrote:

    Hi Jerry,
    Thanks for the great info, this site is very helpful!!
    I’ve been trying a combo of Bob’s and John’s bins.
    I drilled several holes at the lower edge of a square bin. Then I slid screen material into the bin. I then tilted the bin 10degrees or so, and allowed the run off to catch in a smaller container. That worked for a week or so, but now the main bin seems really dry, should I be adding water to the bin?? It’s full of maggots and grubs, not sure how many BSF’s grubs and how many are regulare old yucky black flys. There is no smell so that’s good, but lots of black flys. (not BSF) The tub is mostly full of Horse manure and slimed veggies.
    Thanks again for your blog, and the active group that posts here!!
    Every time I get excited about something I read on here, my Wife just shakes her head!! :)
    Steve

    Posted 10 Aug 2010 at 8:10 am
  54. Jerry wrote:

    Hi Steve,

    I’m glad you’re enjoying the blog, maybe your wife will come around some day… ;)

    The waste should be moist but it’s normally not necessary to add liquid to it. The exception is when you add mostly dry items like grains and in that case you might want to moisten them first.

    Posted 10 Aug 2010 at 8:39 am
  55. John wrote:

    Lol…I keep bringing up the BSF at dinner or family outings. Not only is my wife shaking her head, my kids are too. They keep saying, “Dad can we not talk about the BSF?” I keep trying to convince my wife, et. al, that the BSF is going to be a good thing flying around our backyard. Plus, when it produces free food for our reptile, not too mention the other good qualities it has, they will all be smiling. I keep telling them that it would be a great science project for school.

    Posted 10 Aug 2010 at 8:45 am
  56. Jerry wrote:

    My girlfriend is a veterinarian so she isn’t too squeamish, but she really appreciates the BSF since we got a few peacocks. :)

    Posted 10 Aug 2010 at 8:59 am
  57. Steve in Fresno wrote:

    I ordered 400 BSF from phoenixworms.com.
    tossed them into the bin, and as I said in my last post the bin is full of maggots, I don’t want to be raising black house flys!! How can I tell which are good maggots and which are bad?? I’ve seen 1 BSF since putting in the grubs, but my card board “nests” are still clear. And no worms in the harvest container. Still no smell. I reached to the bottom of the bin this morning and it’s not hot, and it’s dry. Any ideas?? My wife is getting sick of the flys!!! :P

    Posted 13 Aug 2010 at 10:08 am
  58. Jerry wrote:

    Steve,

    I’ve never tried using horse manure to attract BSF but I would guess that it’s more effective at attracting house flies. BSF larvae don’t process high cellulose items like the grass that horses eat. Pig or chicken manure would be a better attractant for BSF but I would definitely choose fermented corn or cabbage as an attractant over any type of manure. I’ve used corn mostly, and it seems to attract relatively few house flies and works great for BSF.

    Posted 13 Aug 2010 at 10:31 am
  59. injunjoe wrote:

    How nice to see how active the blog has been.

    Today I made a new bucket. When I thought about the filter it hit me, I have been doing heat and air work and have a scrap coil that is like a bottle brush and is 100% aluminum. I put a length in my vise and made a tight coil that fits into the bucket. In the center it has a 2″ leg. This holds it up off the bottom.

    I don’t see anyway they can destroy that!!
    These coils could be found at scrap metal collection places for just a little more then the scarp price!

    I will get pictures ASAP if this sounds like a good idea. It is not yet tested but I loaded it with handfuls of larvae.

    Oh and John (TX) What an impressive setup! I also like to supplement my chickens feed with BSF.

    Posted 13 Aug 2010 at 11:40 am
  60. Jerry wrote:

    A photo of that filter would be great injunjoe.

    Posted 13 Aug 2010 at 12:27 pm
  61. injunjoe wrote:

    First I would like to say I feel for you and your family. I am going through this with my dear mother in law.

    Ok this is very primitive thinking and as you know that is what I am all about! I love to reuse things!

    Here is the raw coil I saved.

    This is a rough, (very rough) filter. I just made it for the pictures as the other one is covered with BSF already. The bucket is churning just hours after completion and addition of larvae.

    I would have to think this is indestructible!

    Nice part is I have enough to make about 12 filters and will save more as they become available.

    Posted 13 Aug 2010 at 2:13 pm
  62. injunjoe wrote:

    Sorry Jerry I thought the Image codes would work!
    Let me know what to link to and I will be happy to fix it.

    Doooh!!

    Posted 13 Aug 2010 at 2:17 pm
  63. Jerry wrote:

    Thanks for the kind words about my family injunjoe, we’re doing pretty well considering my parents ages.

    Posting images here requires html code. I fixed the code but it looks like there’s a problem with one of the urls.

    I sure does look like that filter would hold up fine, hopefully it will filter the waste well without clogging. Thanks for sharing the idea and I hope you’ll let us know how it goes.

    Posted 13 Aug 2010 at 2:33 pm
  64. John wrote:

    So, I built my first BSF compost bucket today. I was able to get everything at Home Depot or Lowes with one exception; I could not for the life of me find the caps for the 3/4 barb 3/4 threaded. All I could find was some similar parts in sprinkler parts but the cap won’t cinch down enough to provide a seal. Even with the O-rings liquid leaks from the hole. I guess I’ll look around online to see what I can come up with. I hope I’m not doing this too late in the summer. We should have a couple of more months of heat before real cold weather starts.

    Posted 14 Aug 2010 at 11:17 pm
  65. Jerry wrote:

    Hi John,

    I’m glad you’ll be trying your hand at culturing BSF.

    The threads on the barbed adapter I used are identical to the threads on a standard garden hose. The caps are very common and can be found in the garden section where the hoses are kept. I suppose there could be variations in different manufacturers and I can’t remember if I got my parts at Home Depot or Lowes, but I got the adapter and the caps at the same store.

    It shouldn’t be too late to start in most parts of the country. Of course the warmer your climate is the more time you have. If I were you I would start fermenting some corn or cabbage to use as an attractant.

    Good luck and please keep us posted.

    Posted 15 Aug 2010 at 10:13 am
  66. John wrote:

    I’ll have to go back to home depot or lowe’s today. When I went the other day I did the unmanly thing and asked for help :) . Both stores told me they didn’t have a cap. Of course, I was talking to the plumbing people. I strolled the hose section too but didn’t see anything.

    Posted 16 Aug 2010 at 8:17 am
  67. Jerry wrote:

    Here’s a link to one I found at Lowes’ website: Hose Cap

    Home depot’s website shows a brass cap, but I’m sure they carry plastic ones in the stores.

    Posted 16 Aug 2010 at 12:11 pm
  68. John wrote:

    Yeah, that’s the one I found too but only online. I’ve ordered it. It’s weird that Home Depot has nothing online with exception to Home Depot Canada. Do Canadians use hose caps more than we do?

    Also, does it take a month to ferment corn? Is there a faster process? What quick alternatives are out there instead of the corn?

    Posted 16 Aug 2010 at 2:46 pm
  69. Jerry wrote:

    I promise that Home Depot has the plastic caps in the store, but much of what they have in stock doesn’t show up on their website. You can probably find this part in any decent hardware store and also Walmart, Kmart, Target, etc.

    I found the caps at an abandoned (cached) page at HD’s website. I think they only put items on their website that cost enough to be worth shipping. Here’s the link: Caps

    It can take a few weeks before whole kernel corn gets ripe enough, and probably less for ground or cracked corn. For faster results start out with cabbage instead. If you shred some and keep in water it should ferment in a few days. I’ve also put cabbage in a closed plastic bag without water, outdoors in the heat for a few days with good results.

    Posted 16 Aug 2010 at 3:43 pm
  70. John wrote:

    I love Home Depot. So, I’ll look around again. I’ll say this, my local Home Depot doesn’t sell the vinyl tubing by the foot in 3/4 inch ID. They only sell it in rolls of 20 feet. I found that Lowe’s does sell it by the foot. I even mentioned it to a supervisor at Home Depot. They didn’t seem to care. I appreciate the help. I should have everything up and running in a few days. Looking forward to seeing those little flies come to my home (I never thought I’d say that in my life but I am looking forward to it;))

    Posted 16 Aug 2010 at 3:53 pm
  71. Harold Riehl wrote:

    I am in the process of building a bucket collector and wondered if I could contact some other BSF people? I live in the Tacoma, Seattle area and would like to have some input from others who live in this area. My concern is that there may not be BSF in this area, or may take some time attracting them, so maybe someone in this area would be willing to sell or give me a small starter bunch. Thanks.

    Posted 17 Aug 2010 at 2:32 pm
  72. Jerry wrote:

    Hi Harold,

    We know for sure that black soldier flies are in the Seattle area, but there might be notable differences in working with them there compared to where I live in SW Georgia. I hope to start a forum here soon so people can network more easily. In the meantime you might want to register on the BioPod forum to look for someone near you. For now that’s the most active BSF forum I know of. I fear it’s a bit late in the (short) season where you are to get started. Still, if you want to try attracting local BSF I would start by spoiling some cabbage as an attractant. You shouldn’t have strong odors once the colony is established, but they do help attract the BSF females in the beginning.

    Posted 17 Aug 2010 at 3:18 pm
  73. Harold Riehl wrote:

    Thanks Jerry, I put a bucket together this afternoon with a couple things to complete, so now let the BSF fun begin.

    Posted 17 Aug 2010 at 6:57 pm
  74. David White wrote:

    Great site. Several ideas for the drain to try: A hole plugged with a metal kitchen scrubby. Gravel in the bottom.
    A short piece of pvc pipe with slots sawn in it to allow drainage across the bottom of the bucket.

    I’m going to build one tomorrow.

    Posted 17 Aug 2010 at 10:12 pm
  75. David White wrote:

    The harvesting method is great too. you can lengthen the tube and just drape it over the edge into a bucket if you can do without a lid.

    Posted 18 Aug 2010 at 10:30 am
  76. Jerry wrote:

    Hi David,

    I checked out your website and looks like BSF would be a great benefit to your operation. The potential seems great to convert some of your “waste” product into high grade feed. Good luck with your bucket, please keep us posted on your progress!

    Posted 18 Aug 2010 at 11:52 am
  77. John wrote:

    Dumb question: Isn’t fermented cabbage, in essence, sauerkraut? Wouldn’t that work as an attractant?

    Posted 18 Aug 2010 at 4:53 pm
  78. Jerry wrote:

    John,

    I think the cabbage will smell stronger during the fermentation process as opposed to the finished product, but why not experiment?

    Posted 18 Aug 2010 at 6:04 pm
  79. Steve in Fresno wrote:

    Well, had to dump my grubs!! :(
    Went out the other night to toss in some meat and saw some ants. I moved the tub into a bucket full of water to keep more ants from getting in. The next morning I went out and found about a MILLION ants crawling through my bin!! And no Grubs, magots, anything!! Guess the ants ate them!! I was headed out of town that day so the whole lot went into the trash. I’m so bummed!! Guess I start over!! I think I’ll just spring for the biopod and be done with it!! I’ll let you know how that gos :)

    Posted 20 Aug 2010 at 9:55 pm
  80. Jerry wrote:

    Steve,

    Ants will be the same issue regardless of which type of unit you use. The first thing I recommend is that you don’t add meat to the unit until you have a very dense colony established. In a BioPod or larger DIY unit you can support a colony of tens of thousands of larvae. A dense colony will have enough larvae to make a layer 2 or 3 inches deep; 400 is practically nothing and is only useful to help attract BSF females so you can build up a significant colony. I’m not saying you shouldn’t get a BioPod, but it’s not realistic to think that it will resolve the issues you’ve had.

    http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/2009/08/01/the-biopod-is-not-a-toaster-a-disclaimer/

    Posted 21 Aug 2010 at 11:46 am
  81. Steve in Fresno wrote:

    OK, Well Ill get another batch of BSF, and give it another go! Thanks Jerry!!

    Posted 21 Aug 2010 at 10:45 pm
  82. Jerry wrote:

    Steve,

    Judging by historical weather data I think you’ll probably see BSF activity into October. Good luck.

    Posted 21 Aug 2010 at 11:14 pm
  83. John wrote:

    I fermented cabbage and put the cabbage in the BSF bucket. So far nothing after several days. It’s not in direct sun light. It has been a little cooler the last few days. I think it’s in a good spot. It’s close to our garbage cans. It’s also close to a large tomato plant. Would the strong, tomato plant, smell deter the BSF from finding the fermented cabbage?

    Posted 24 Aug 2010 at 8:52 am
  84. Jerry wrote:

    John,

    The tomato plant won’t effect the BSF. I wouldn’t assume failure at this time because BSF females may have laid eggs when you weren’t watching. Often the eggs are scattered randomly and won’t be visible. If there are currently eggs you still won’t see the resulting larvae for up to two weeks because eggs take four days to hatch and several more to be large enough to easily see.

    Where are you located?

    Posted 24 Aug 2010 at 10:17 am
  85. John (Driftwood TX) wrote:

    Howdy Byron and injunjoe – thanks for the kind words – it was alot of fun setting it all up after just having a couple of bins on blocks for the first 6 weeks and dreaming of something different. This thing has really taken on a life of its own lately.

    Hi Bob, I read your post to my wife, the one about using truck bedliners and she looked at me and moved her head reeaallll slow back and forth and I said – “but honey, he says we can get ‘em for only 20 bucks”!! I’ll definitely keep those in mind for other projects. She keeps a close watch on me ever since we lived by the Missouri river and I started to build a wooden barge in the backyard of our duplex. Just couldn’t talk her into a quick trip to New Orleans.

    Hey Jerry, how right you were about surface area and yield. It went kinda crazy a couple of weeks ago when the crawl-off wave went from a pound to two pounds to a whole gallon of mature grubs on the third night. Then it tapered off bigtime and then I struggled daily to keep the bins cool enough. I split a few of them again and there are ten now, but I just realized it’s not the way to go – I usually learn things the hard way – after losing a whole bin of grubs to heat stroke. The ones that were not yet dead were in shock and died off over a few days and the smell got kinda funky so I pitched the whole thing out into the garden and let the neighbor’s birds have a field day. So, even with the splits, the watering and fans are necessary for part of the day when we’re hitting 100 degrees.

    Yesterday I did the numbers on what the next wave might look like since there have been well over 50 flies hatching out every day from the pupation bin. It’s astronomical – so today I decided to get ready for it and harvested about half of the immature grubs and put them in the freezer. I prepped for it by using a bunch of canteloupe rinds to draw them up into that amazing cluster thing they do underneath – where they push and literally fill the whole inside of the half-rind – what amazing energy they have. I weighed all the baggies – 42 of them at about a pound each – and subtracted a bunch for any castings. I figure about 30 pounds of grubs. I felt a little sad putting them in the freezer before they had a chance to live a full life, but it’s probably a better way to go than heat-death where they’re frantically bunched up in the corners. I’m just going to harvest this way from now on to keep the numbers down and the bins cool. All the crawl-off of mature grubs will be saved for pupation. I’m just getting into setting up neighbors with smaller bins ready-to-roll with 3 or 4 inches of grubs in their castings. Hopefully we can start a fad in this area.

    I’m wondering what you think might be the cause of very small mature grubs. I measured one small fly coming out of its casing and it was just a bit longer than 1/4 inch which is the smallest one I’ve seen yet. I get alot of tiny mature ones, maybe a quarter of the total. Do you think it’s how much food they managed to eat before their next stage timing clicked in?

    thanks, John

    Posted 24 Aug 2010 at 10:55 pm
  86. Jerry wrote:

    John,

    Thanks for the update. I love the scale of your project. I believe the reason you’re getting small adults is from the excessive heat this year. Check out this recent study about the effects of heat on BSF:

    http://forensicentomology.tamu.edu/pdf/Tomberlin%20et%20al%20temperature%202009.pdf

    Posted 25 Aug 2010 at 10:09 pm
  87. John (Driftwood TX) wrote:

    Thanks Jerry, that is an awesome study and answers a bunch of questions I’ve had. Wow, did those folks get super-detailed with their measurements, or what! Really a nice piece of work.

    My wife knows a rancher in south Georgia who’s experimenting with BSF’s feeding on slaughterhouse waste and he’s been having difficulty keeping them alive. I’ll pass this report on since it addresses a couple of issues that are sure to be relevant to his situation.

    Adios

    Posted 26 Aug 2010 at 7:02 am
  88. Jerry wrote:

    John,

    I live in SW Georgia and you may tell the rancher I would be willing to help him diagnose problems.

    Dr. Tomberlin has done extensive work with BSF. I want to study this recent experiment because the data is interesting and somewhat confusing to me. The experiment indicates that a temperature of 97ºF (36ºC) causes fatality but we know that BSF thrive in climates that often see higher temps. My current theory is that a consistent temperature of 97º is harmful but that higher temps are tolerated when offset by cooler periods.

    Posted 26 Aug 2010 at 7:22 am
  89. John wrote:

    I live in Utah. I’ve had my bucket up and running for over a week now with fermented cabbage. Still nothing other than dozens of fruit flies. No sign of any BSF yet. Suggestions? Should I buy some phoenix worms and put them in the bucket and see what happens or should I just wait?

    Posted 27 Aug 2010 at 5:24 pm
  90. Jerry wrote:

    Hi John,

    I’ve never heard of BSF in Utah that I can remember. Also, I’ve read that BSF are not typically found above 5000 feet of elevation. You might want to do some investigating locally to see if people with compost piles have seen BSF larvae; that is the most common way people discover BSF.

    Posted 27 Aug 2010 at 7:24 pm
  91. John wrote:

    Where I live in Utah it’s 4,600 feet in elevation. I tried to do some research before I built the BSF bucket. I saw quite a bit of research done in Idaho and thought that our region is similar in elevation. I guess I was wrong. :( I did find this link to the Stratiomyida Odontomyia. Is this from the same family as the BSF. Here’s the link:

    http://amazingnature.us/insects/soldier_fly.html#sf

    Or the Hedriodiscus binotatus

    http://amazingnature.us/insects/soldier_fly2.html#hedriodiscus_binotatus

    Both of these are indigenous to Utah. I’m sad that I didn’t do all my research before building the BSF bucket. Maybe it’s time to introduce the BSF to utah. :)

    Posted 28 Aug 2010 at 1:49 pm
  92. Jerry wrote:

    John,

    You may be within the limits of elevation, but climate also is a big factor. Plant hardiness zones aren’t perfectly organized for predicting BSF presence but they can be a helpful tool. Of course the higher the zone the more likely you are to find wild BSF. I’ve had a handful of reports about BSF in zone 6, and maybe a few from zone 5. If you’re in zone 5 and at 4600 feet, then you might want to try establishing a micro colony based on the assumption that no wild BSF are nearby. If so you should start as soon as the weather will support BSF reproduction. The BSF should do fine in the summer months in Utah, and the challenge will be to overwinter enough larvae/pupae to restart in the spring. I’m sure it can be done, but it will take a fair amount of effort and attention.

    Posted 28 Aug 2010 at 4:13 pm
  93. bob wrote:

    RE through-fittings

    A couple of thoughts for cheap fittings. PVC softens with heat and both the hard pvc plumbing pipe and the bucket material can be remolded.

    2 options that come to mind are:

    1. Drilling a hole in a bucket undersized, then using a heat gun or propane torch to soften the edge of the hole so whatever pipe or fitting can be passed through with no or little clearance. A long splash of water will harden the bucket wall.

    2. Drilling the hole to fit the pipe as nearly as possible, heating the middle of the pipe, then quickly inserting the pipe until the softened area is centered and pressing inward from both ends. This will cause the pipe to shorten and bulge to fit the inside rim of the hole. This does not work well with large pipe btw.

    Either can be sealed with PVC cement or silicone, Clean the area and pipe with a pvc cleaner before drilling and avoid the fumes from both the cleaner and the hot PVC. I wouldnt trust these to seal against a full barrel or bucket, but they’d be slosh or splash proof.

    Bill Pentz’ site has a great page on hot-forming PVC, he regularly converts 8″ pipe scrap to 24″ sheet. Which reminds me, I need some barrel lids…

    http://www.billpentz.com/Woodworking/Cyclone/PVC.cfm

    Have fun,

    Bob

    Posted 29 Aug 2010 at 12:38 am
  94. Jerry wrote:

    Hi bob,

    Thanks for the thought and input! The information about forming pvc may come in handy.

    I’ve wondered how pvc cement would work on a polyethylene bucket. I have some doubts about the effectiveness of silicone on one. I have tried silicone on these buckets before and it didn’t seem to adhere well at all. The challenge with any adhesive in a BSF unit is that if the larvae can reach the joint they will dig at and widen any tiny gap they find.

    Posted 29 Aug 2010 at 12:29 pm
  95. John (Driftwood TX) wrote:

    Hi Jerry,

    I didn’t think to do the temperature conversion until you mentioned the 97 degrees puzzle – I just assumed it was higher. My experience here is based on using a meat thermometer every day and usually multiple times each day and in different areas of each bin. I find that they are very active and healthy in the 95 degree range and start getting antsy above 105 and I have measured 110 and above quite a number of times after which I water and fan them down into the 90′s as soon as I can. I think the bin that suffered heat stroke was measuring 116 just prior to the die-off.

    Apparently, the shock kills alot of them right away but others linger for days before they give up the ghost. You can actually feel it while they are still moving but start becoming flaccid and discolored.

    The recent big harvest really helped the temperature situation. I just went out to check and even with the ambient at about 95 degrees, the bins are running between 95 and 98 and that’s with a full feeding this morning and alot of activity evident in the top layer.

    Thanks for the offer of help to our rancher friend. I’m e-mailing him today so you might be hearing from him. He’s in Clay county near Bluffton. He’s an absolute top-of-the-line grassfed cattle producer and a real gentleman to boot.

    I’m experimenting lately with a 56 qt. bin from Home Depot that costs 5 bucks. No holes for crawl-off or drainage, the only add-on is two wood strips with lots of small holes drilled for egg laying. Even though they’re clear plastic bins the grubs seem quite happy. Part of my thinking on this is that it will be an easy and quick way to hand off a mess of grubs to neighbors and folks I meet at farm markets, as long as they don’t mind a bit of management and hands-on.

    I just pulled a few handfuls out of a bin yesterday, spread it all out in a wide, shallow galvanized pan and picked about 200 mature grubs out of the mix in about 5 minutes. Into the puparium bin they went. Alot of the rest found their way out of the castings and out to the edge of the pan where I could scoop them up easily and take ‘em over to the coop for the hens. Then I just dumped everything back into the bin.

    One thing I’m thinking is that due to heat considerations I can’t let the populations get too large or let the castings get too deep anyway – so a smaller, cheaper bin is sufficient and easier to transport.

    I need to design a filter table upon which I can dump a bin with 3 or 4 inches of castings and grubs in order to get the grubs to drop through and leave the castings behind. I’m thinking that a few layers of hardware cloth on a 2×4 frame – offset from each other to create a baffle effect that the grubs will crawl through – might do the trick.

    The object is to have a method of rapid cool-down, easy culling of big larvae for feeding purposes, hand-picking mature ones out for pupation and harvesting the castings if I can determine that they’re not laden with newly hatched babies, in which case it will all just go back in the bin along with whatever grubs are not culled.

    So far I’m not having any fluid problems but I am adding some crushed coir every couple of days for texture and absorption. I ordered 24 of those bricks of coir and might be using up one a week at a cost of about 4 bucks. My buddy with a greenhouse is going to experiment with the castings as a supplement to the mix he uses for starts. We’re hoping they accelerate the growth and health of the plants.

    I’m trying to remember that feeling when I first saw a handful of grubs in the compost pile I had on the ground a few months ago after reading everything I could on your blog. It was a pretty exciting and I immediately put a big bin over the top of it to protect it from the coons. And it’s been nothing but an adventure ever since. Muchos gracias, John

    Posted 29 Aug 2010 at 3:49 pm
  96. Jerry wrote:

    John,

    I’ve really enjoyed reading about your BSF adventure and I look forward to future modifications of your system. I also hope you have some luck devising something to separate larvae from residue; I haven’t had much luck.

    Posted 29 Aug 2010 at 4:06 pm
  97. bob wrote:

    My bad Jerry, PVC cement will not work on PE or HDPE buckets, not much does. FWIW, I use Lexal or lexol brand silicone, it wets and adheres well, but remains very soft and flexible even outdoors. PE would be either a melt to a jam fit or a threaded flange and fitting with a soft silicone washer or both. I used to make filter stacks with take-offs out of construction site scrap mainly large scale pvc sawn and solvent welded. Think of 8″ and up with added rings inside to support the screens and added bottoms and drilled take-off ports. gotta love blu-mol hole saws, until you run them too hot or fast and the scrap piece is melted to the inside.

    That reminds me, a lot of those kitchen grease catchers have nice stainless screens. Most are too coarse for the clays I was messing with, but you can cut the handles off, warp it like a potato chip and if you get lucky with the sizes it pops back into shape just ahead of the rubber or neoprene seal in the bell end of the water/waste pipe scrap. Someone may have a use for that trick.

    Posted 29 Aug 2010 at 11:09 pm
  98. bob wrote:

    Just for fun- How much do they eat?

    When we returned from vacation the pumpkin on my front step had finally given up the ghost. As the larvae were hungry after two weeks and they loooove pumpkins, I whacked the top off, then the rest in half and tossed it in my 18×24 bin. Here is before, it’s the big one in back:

    What’s left after 5 days:

    That rind is maybe 1/16 thick and polished inside, it had around an inch of meat on it when I tossed it in. I should have saved some of the seeds :(

    After I took these, I broke up the shell, ALL of it fit into that 12″ fryer basket with room for another quart of scraps for the bugs.

    Posted 30 Aug 2010 at 12:52 am
  99. Jerry wrote:

    Bob,

    Thanks for the photos. I’ll bet you could still retrieve some viable seeds from the residue…

    During the summer of “09″ I kept records of everything I fed to a colony in an original BioPod, and also of the larvae I harvested. I’m ashamed to say that I still haven’t finished entering the data for the end of the season, but you can still get an idea of the volume I was feeding. Of course I could have fed and harvested more but keeping a unit balanced becomes more challenging as you increase the volume of waste. This test was designed to calculate my conversion percentage from waste to larvae. You can see the details HERE.

    Posted 30 Aug 2010 at 9:22 am
  100. bob wrote:

    Jerry, do you have any estimates of how much liquid is generated? Just as an example, I returned the pumpkin shell and added a gallon of food waste (1/2 gal of very dessicated peaches, a leftover fruit cobbler and a few greens) and at least a pound and a half of uncooked rice. By the next morning there was well over a gallon of additional liquid. I’m wondering if they are relatively inefficient at converting misc carbs to sugars and generate a lot of CO2 and water. Have you seen any research considering the liquid waste?

    Posted 30 Aug 2010 at 9:24 pm
  101. John wrote:

    Jerry,

    You really should sell the Phoenix worms to reptile fans. They are out of stock EVERYWHERE. And to think, I built a BSF bucket to raise them for that purpose: to feed my chinese water dragon. Now I find that they aren’t here in Utah (well, actually I contacted an entomologist and they have record of them being here in 1936 but they don’t seem to be common here now). So, my intention was to buy several hundred of them and put them in my BSF and see what happens. I really only have about a month or so before it gets cold.

    Are there tips to have them continue to reproduce during the winter? I really think they would do well here in the summer. I’d like to be the experimental rat so to speak to see what I can do here in the state of Utah.

    Posted 30 Aug 2010 at 10:19 pm
  102. Connie wrote:

    Jerry -
    I’ve got “ramp failure”. All the larvae are crawling under the filter material into the bottom where the whiffle balls are.
    I’ve got my filter sandwiched between metal window screen on the bottom side and hardware cloth on the top side, but they are still able get around the edges and into the bottom of the bucket.
    I had to switch out the ramp collector – the piece of milk carton busted up so I replaced it with the opening from a juice container. maybe it’s too slippery for them to get started up?
    Any suggestions would beat having to take apart the thing every couple days and grabbing handfuls from the bottom of the bucket !

    Posted 31 Aug 2010 at 6:04 pm
  103. Connie wrote:

    Oops another question….I took the extra “hand” harvest and put them in a container in the fridge. Used to keep the mealworms for my chickens that way…
    After a few hours in the fridge, there was no movement. Did I kill them or will they start moving if I take them out of the fridge and they warm up?

    Posted 31 Aug 2010 at 6:07 pm
  104. John wrote:

    I’m pretty excited. I contacted an entomologist at Utah State University. This is what he said, “Hermetia illucens is found throughout the US and is found in Utah. It should do well here.” Now if I could find some phoenix worms to get my BSF bucket going. I’m trying to find some for sale online. Any suggestions??

    Posted 01 Sep 2010 at 6:35 pm
  105. injunjoe wrote:

    “Phoenix Worms”, is just a trade mark name for BSF.

    I think people get confused with this point.

    John, (Utah) If it was said they should do well you should be able to attract them. They are very prominent around here in FL and I had a had time starting a colony. But with what I have read and reread here and a bit of trial and error I have it!

    My pets eat like kings/ Queens now and again I thank Jerry for all the help he has provided.

    My dear lady actually likes my “Poop Flies” as she calls them, after explaining what they are capable of. She likes to catch the fly and set it in my Vivarium for Liz to hunt down and eat. It’s a jungle around here! LOL

    Posted 01 Sep 2010 at 11:11 pm
  106. Bruce (Austin) wrote:

    First of all, thanks, Jerry, for the wonderful site.

    John (Driftwood), I’m in Austin and would love to come check out your set-up sometime if that’s OK. I’d be happy to bring some wonderful cookies to help make it worth your while. You can contact me at bruce_curtis@yahoo.com. That’s an email address I use when I expect to get spam, so I don’t care about it being posted here.

    Thanks!

    Posted 02 Sep 2010 at 11:20 am
  107. John (Driftwood TX) wrote:

    Howdy Bruce, that’d be great to show you the operation, I just sent you an e-mail with all the details. I harvested a few pounds and froze them today but there’s a number of bins still going strong plus a ton of mature ones in the pupation bin. Hopefully they’ll be hatching out when you visit. That seems to be a cyclical thing, maybe weather dependent plus age. You’ll also get to see the casualties from overheating which is our main challenge here – plenty of those, I don’t feed ‘em to my chickens but the neighbor birds don’t seem to mind them.

    @John (Utah) – I’d be happy to ship you a bunch of mature grubs so that you can get some flies going hopefully this year. I could send them USPS and you could just cover the postage after you get them. Ask Jerry for my e-mail if that’s OK with him.

    Posted 02 Sep 2010 at 6:58 pm
  108. snmreptiles wrote:

    Jerry, THANKS for all your hard work, and willingness to share this info. I have been looking to culture these guys for a few years now…14,000 crickets every 2 weeks get’s ridiculous! LOL

    Hey John in UT, just got 800 “Repti Worms” from reptiworm.com. They have plenty from what I can tell! Use the coupon code “Kingsnake20″ to get 20% off. Shipping was also only $2.99

    Posted 03 Sep 2010 at 1:04 am
  109. John wrote:

    Thanks for the suggestions. Also, thanks to John from TX for offering to help me. I appreciate it. I’m looking forward to starting as soon as I can. What are some suggestions to keep them going during the winter or make sure they come back in the spring. Should I continue to use fermented corn or cabbage throughout the winter? Other food products? Do the grubs naturally burrow in dirt during the winter? How can I assure that BSF will come back in the spring and I can enjoy seeing them grow all next summer?

    John

    Posted 03 Sep 2010 at 4:57 pm

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  1. From Irrigationless Urban Food Production « permatechie on 28 Jul 2010 at 2:33 pm

    [...] such as fungi, may require. Jerry from the Black Soldier Fly (BSF) Blog has provided an open source biocomposter for BSF and has this to say about them, Since I started keeping a colony of BSFL there is no such thing as [...]

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