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 Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms 
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Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:55 pm
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Location: Stirling, Scotland
Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
http://webs.uvigo.es/avelando/pdfs_archivos/ejsb2006b

Hello Boreal. On your worms, scanning this article, it looks like closely related worms might have a mechanism for avoiding each other. I don't know if you could say the same about flies.


Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:30 pm
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
StVitus wrote:
http://webs.uvigo.es/avelando/pdfs_archivos/ejsb2006b

Hello Boreal. On your worms, scanning this article, it looks like closely related worms might have a mechanism for avoiding each other. I don't know if you could say the same about flies.
Thank you for posting that and my apologies for leading us a bit off topic for this forum but it looks like inbreeding can be a concern with vermiculture:
"As far as we know, this is the first study that indicates reproductive adjustment in earthworms according to the genetic divergence of their partners. Optimal outbreeding should be considered a crucial point in the management of breeding populations for applied purposes."

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Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:45 pm
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Hello all,
sorry for the long delay between updates. Getting things moved out to the salmon company has been very slow... but I guess to be expected when dealing with industry and the endless university bureaucracy. Xmas is an especially bust time for the industry too. I have a meeting on site next week to finalise details of getting the trial set up and some funding 90% secured for building biopod prototypes.
I have overcome all my breeding problems it seems an now have a good population on the go. I am going to finalise my prototype design soon (see attached) but would appreciate some comments. I am particularly concerned with drainage, considering the wet nature of the feedstock. I also want to make sure that the prepupa collection is optimised. It is inside the vessel because of potential sub-zero temperatures outside during the winter. See also some other pics of the breeding box now.

Best wishes,
Richard.


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Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:25 pm
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
StVitus wrote:
... I have overcome all my breeding problems it seems an now have a good population on the go. I am going to finalise my prototype design soon (see attached) but would appreciate some comments. I am particularly concerned with drainage, considering the wet nature of the feedstock. I also want to make sure that the prepupa collection is optimised. It is inside the vessel because of potential sub-zero temperatures outside during the winter
Image


Richard thanks for the update. Could you give the approximate size of your design?

Jerry has been experimenting with a small flood and drain system that seems to reduce drainage problems (link). He has also found that one ramp alone is good enough for harvesting but I don't know how well either concept would scale up. I'm sure he'll be along to comment.

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Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:20 pm
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Thanks for this Boreal. I had a good look at it over the weekend. I will see what the design company say about whether we can incorporate something like it into the design. We also want to be able to remove the fras and clean out any left over bones easily so this will need to be factored in at the same time. When we have the next design, I'll post it up here. The one that I put up was very rough to give them an idea. I think the ramps could be narrower for a start. The whole thing is currently scaled to 1.2 x 1.0 x 1.2 m. L x w x d.
I calculated that a large sized farm would produce in the region of 150 tonnes of morts over the 2 year cycle, so we can expect on average, 1.5 per week but with certain peaks and troughs at different stages. I'm hoping that 2 of these vessels should be plenty. Any that are left will need to be disposed of as usual.

Many thanks,
Richard.


Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:25 am
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Thanks for the update Richard. I can't imagine working with the old style of drainage system at this point. The flood/flush system removes the frass by drawing it out with the water during the flushing procedure. Even though I started my composters with a large percentage of space used for coir and charcoal, the unit did not fill up any faster than with conventional designs, and I believe it actually filled up more slowly. Flushing out the ultra fine frass solves all of the common issues associated with BSF composters in my opinion.

I've recently changed from coconut coir pieces to pine bark which is sold as landscaping mulch. The pine bark breaks down much more slowly, is much cheaper, and I think it's more effective as a filter. Although the benefits to using charcoal in BSF composters is theoretical, I think it's probably a good idea. My current preference is half charcoal, half pine bark, with the total volume for the two materials combined at approximately 50% of the wet volume of the composter.

I tested a 40 liter unit with a single ramp this season and had excellent results. It may have taken some larvae more time to find the exit, but I believe that the number of larvae that self-harvested was equal to a two ramp system.

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Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:01 am
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Thanks Jerry,

I'm a little bit reluctant to go for natural filter media for a couple of reasons. Mainly that if we want to roll this out to remote sites (a lot are in the Outer Hebrides and on Shetland) it may be difficult for them to acquire these materials and secondly I'm worried it might be too much maintenance for the farm workers to manage. I'm thinking that if we can incorporate a sheet of synthetic material that can be slid in and out of the filter tower, it could be easily rinsed off and put back in place. There are many different filter materials available through aquaculture suppliers. For the fras removal, I am thinking of putting a drawer at the bottom. This in mind, the drain would need to be in a corner so that it didn't obstruct the drawer being pulled out.

What are your thoughts?

Richard.


Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:33 am
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
EDIT June 2014: I'm still using pine bark, but have become aware of an issue with the release of sap/resin in some batches. If you're using one of my bio-composters, you can dissolve pine resin with Dawn Ultra dish soap. A description of the pine bark issue and the Dawn Ultra treatment can be found here: LINK

I'm currently testing alternatives to pine bark, including common wood mulch, and using all hardwood lump charcoal. I used medium coconut husk (coir) chips in the past with good results, but after several months it tends to shred and slow down drainage.


Richard, my experience has been that all filters clog with BSF frass. Imagine trying to filter clay. I believe this is even more likely when processing a high fat fish. However, I'm glad to see new approaches being tested, and I hope we can all learn from it.

The medium I'm using now is simply pieces of pine bark, so I think it would be easy to find in most areas of the world. Of course it's convenient that it's sold in the U.S. as a decorative landscaping material.

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Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:59 pm
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Ok, thanks Jerry,

I am having another meeting with the company soon so I will see what they think. The experimental site will be on the mainland, at least so they should have reasonable access to materials. It's looking like being around here:

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Strome ... 67&t=h&z=8

When we get it built, I'll try to make sure that there is some scope for tinkering with it, so we can a optimise it as we go.

Best wishes,

Richard.


Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:40 am
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Will a BSF colony survive on a pure fish diet?


Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:11 pm
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Quote:
Will a BSF colony survive on a pure fish diet?


That's a good question.... there will be some food scraps going in from the farm canteen, but not a lot proportionately...

I guess we'll find out ;)


Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:28 pm
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Richard (StVitus) was kind enough to provide a link to the data sheet for the bulb he uses. I've added it to this post (link) which is a short summary of lighting used by people who have been successful with indoor breeding of BSF.

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Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:12 pm
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Questions by Travelfool and their answers have been split off into a new topic Indoor Co-op BSF Project (link) in order to maintain the focus of this thread.

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Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:54 pm
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
StVitus, how did you get your initial BSF larvae? I've been contacted by a researcher in Sweden who is looking for a source.

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Fri May 09, 2014 9:04 am
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Hello,
sorry for the slow reply.

I initially bought 100 grubs from a pet feed supplier in Tillicoultry. They are also widely available over the internet.

FYI, I am now in Ghana (hence poor internet availability) working on a project that is looking at the possibility of using the BSFL residue as a biofertiliser in local small holder farms. The project runs in conjunction with the PROteINSECT project that many of you will have heard of. I visited that site last week and they have made good progress.

The prototype vessels for the salmon mort work are also in construction and I hope that they will be in place shortly. I have a good stock of BSF now ready to go. I am a keen fisherman, and I placed the head and viscera from a 3lb fish I caught in my grub box. I can say that it took only a few hour for them to reduce it to a small skull and a couple of vertebrae, so things are looking promising.

All the best.

St.V.


Sun May 11, 2014 7:22 am
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
StVitus wrote:
... FYI, I am now in Ghana (hence poor internet availability) working on a project that is looking at the possibility of using the BSFL residue as a biofertiliser in local small holder farms. The project runs in conjunction with the PROteINSECT project that many of you will have heard of. I visited that site last week and they have made good progress.
Ghana must be a nice change from the British winter ;) If there's enough info about your new project please feel free to create another thread about it.

http://www.proteinsect.eu/
"PROteINSECT - enabling the exploitation of insects as a sustainable source of protein for animal feed and human nutrition "

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Sun May 11, 2014 12:39 pm
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Hi StVitus,
Consider an additional use for your BSF larva. Cull larval gut Bacillus subtilis for fermenting some of the prolific aquatic plant group called Duckweed (or possibly a local photosynthesizer) .
A 37* Celsius fermentation done for 2 weeks reduced duckweed's fiber to just 7.5%, phytic acid to 0.09% & tannin to 0.02%. Meanwhile, "...reducing sugars, free amino acids and fatty acids increased in the fermented leaf meal....highest carcass protein and lipid deposition was recorded in ... diet containing 30% fermented leaf meal ...compared to 10% level of raw meal..." in study feeding Rohu with B. subtilis that was sourced from Carp.
See (2002) "Duckweed (Lemna polyrhiza) leaf meal as a source of feedstuff in formulated diets for rohu (Labeo rohita Ham.) fingerlings after fermentation with a fish intestinal bacterium";http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12146637
Regarding B. subtilis strains in BSF gut try (2011) "Inoculating poultry manure with companion bacteria influences growth and development of black soldier fly (Diptera: Stratiomyidae) larvae" & also try (2013) "A survey of bacterial diversity from successive life stages of black soldier fly (Diptera: Stratiomyidae) by using 16S rDNA pyrosequencing"


Sat May 24, 2014 5:15 am
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Hello StVitus,

I am using a very similar set up to yours and using the exact same light bulb. I am wondering if you had your breading box exposed to any natural light or was only artificial light used to stimulate breeding?

I have had adult flies for about 10 days now (but only about 30) with no breeding =( . My breading cage is fully enclose with insulation board so no natural light enters.

I am uploading pictures and more detail of my set-up on my 'co-op' thread

You work with PROteINSECT sound amasing and I have been following what I can keenly!

Cheers

Travelfool


Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:26 am
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Hello,
I suspect your problem is not to do with the bulb but other factors, such as humidity. If it is very dry, spraying the box with water will keep it up. I also now have sand and wood shavings on the floor of the box which helps maintain humidity without it becoming too wet. I didn't get breeding for quite a while after the 1st adults appeared, but I kept adding my food waste, and it was maybe after about 3 weeks from the 1st adults appearing that the first eggs were laid (in the sand, not the cardboard strips). So I think the combination of the humidity from the food waste and the smell of it decaying may have triggered them.... so don't give up yet!

Also how long do you have the bulb on for?
Mine is on for 3 hours in the morning and 5 hours at night. The box is quite close to a window, but I was getting breeding throughout the harsh Scottish winter when there was little light.

I found that having plenty of waste in there with some of the old residue/fras, helps not only to encourage breeding but to encourage the flies to lay their eggs in the right place.

I don't work directly with PROteINSECT, but on a spin off project. We are designing the website at the moment, so as soon as it is ready, I'll post it up here and create a different thread. I have been to the PROteINSECT production site a couple of times though.

Hope this helps.

StV.


Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:58 am
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Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Hello StVitus,

I have the light on a 12 hour on/off cycle from 6am - 6pm.

I have a small humidifier inside the set-up ( I have posted pictures on my thread 'Indoor Co-op BSF Project')

Thank you for sharing your techniques and tips. I was planning on a bigger box for the attractant and adding some fras as my next potential step.

Did/ do you have some BSFL feeding in the breading box or only in a separate one altogether?

Quote:
I have been to the PROteINSECT production site a couple of times though


is that here in the UK?

Thanks again

TF


Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:12 pm
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