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 Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms 
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Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:55 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Stirling, Scotland
Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Yes, I have limited feeding in the breeding box. I transfer the new grubs over every week or two.

Sorry, the PROteINSECT site is in Ghana. Around about here:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@5.696050 ... a=!3m1!1e3

The farmer plots to the right will be used for an agronomy trial using the fras as a biofertiliser.

Best wishes,

StV.


Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:40 am
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Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:45 am
Posts: 16
Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
I think the BSF were listening to me complain. I have my first cluster I think!!! :D

Thank you for your continuing support!

TF


Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:02 pm
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Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:55 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Stirling, Scotland
Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Hello all,

as part of this trial, I will be asking about customer perceptions and satisfaction with the pre-pupae that will be sold for pet reptiles. I am not a reptile keeper, so I was wondering if any of you that do keep them, would help me by telling me what are the key attributes that you are looking for in a live reptile feed, that could be asked within the survey? E.g. as they will be fed on salmon morts, it is likely that they will be high in omega-3 fatty acids.... would this be of interest to a lizard keeper at all?

Many thanks for any guidance you can offer.

Other news is that the vessels are nearly ready and I am looking at a delivery date to the salmon farm within 2 weeks.

Best wishes,
St.V.


Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:49 am
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Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:35 pm
Posts: 1608
Location: Central Florida, USA
Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
I imagine the salmon diet produces black soldier fly larvae with excellent nutritional value.

I've fed mature larvae to wild toads, but my impression is that the tougher skin in that stage makes it less desirable as herp food.

_________________
blacksoldierflyblog.com

*I'm not an entomologist, and much of what I write about BSF is an educated guess.


Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:16 am
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Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:44 pm
Posts: 96
Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Hi StVitus,
I have been following your projects & recently posted under subject heading "Amino Acid Profiles" one way to modify larval content by what is a solid substrate fermentation (SSF is also called solid state fermentation). Of course for your use the larvae treated by that detailed method may need some salt reduction; soaking &/or rinsing before being used for feeding could be sufficient.
You probably have researched how there are limits to how much of larvae is desirable to incorporate into a diet; this applies in varying ratios for reptiles, poultry & fish. Quite possibly by first fermenting larvae more of them can be fed with continuous benefit. Earlier in your thread I linked to how fermenting duckweed (by a different method) increases the quantity one can use to good effect & although you are not working with duckweed the option to ferment your project's larvae bears considering, or so I believe.
You ask for key reptile feed needs & one is the ratio of how much calcium there is to phosphorus ratio; the phosphorus % being too high can impede calcium being incorporated into reptilian skeletons. Professional/zoo breeders figure their reptile generally need 2 parts calcium for every 1 part phosphorus & in black soldier fly larvae some samples test to having about 1.5 parts calcium to every 1 part phosphorus. There's research that BSF pre-pupae contain about 2.7% calcium by weight. If fermentation turns out to boost the calcium % in larvae or pre-pupae even greater then that makes the larvae better for reptiles.


Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:43 pm
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Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:55 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Stirling, Scotland
Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Hello Gringojay,

thank you for your comments. It is certainly an interesting aspect. I think the work, fermenting with duckweed will be of more interest to PROteINSECT as they are involve in making a highly consistent, uniform protein ingredient for use in fish feeds. I have also looked at hydrolysing proteins using enzyme techniques to provide more digestible feed ingredients. This is quite similar to fermentation techniques in some ways. I will certainly discuss with my colleagues in that project when I see them. For my work in Ghana, we are mostly working with small-holders who may not readily be able to do this.

For the salmon work here, I think that the most important aspect of the grubs is that hey will be a live feed for the reptiles. I am fairly convinced that they will make a good feed for them but I have no experience of reptile keeping so I was particularly keen to find out what aspects of live-feeds directs purchase choice. E.g. do they need to wriggle a lot, is colour important? etc etc. I could then put a customer satisfaction questionnaire together based on these aspects. So any suggestions that people have from this point of view would be most appreciated.

The comments regarding calcium: phosphorous ratios were most appreciated. I had not considered to test for Ca until now.

Many thanks and regards,

St.V.


Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:46 am
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Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:44 pm
Posts: 96
Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Hi StVitus,
What reptile(s) are you desiring to give your live feed; & is this designed for your work in Ghana? If feeding reptiles in Ghana then I presume it is not for a Ghanian sector that only keeps reptiles as a hobby & thus project's goal is to better rear reptiles for subsequent eating by something (or someone).

Should the project be designed for human consumption of the reptiles you may find it informative to see the full free pdf (2009) "Biological risks associated with consumption of reptile products." International Journal of Food Microbiology". Table of contents item "2" breaks down some of the different eaten reptiles. Link =
http://www.seaturtle.org/PDF/MagninoS_2 ... robiol.pdf

Breeding stock of the reptiles will quite likely be able to consume more of the larvae when there are developing changes in the females' follicles. As get closer to egg laying dietary items with high protein are most favored. They don't focus so much on high protein feed after having laid their eggs because the high protein content is a burden to their system. Protein above the level of what is needed at any time is a burden to the system; it takes energy to break it down (catabolize).
What is required before their next follicle develops is to build up more fat, rather than perform futile cycles of excess protein going in & processed out. Furthermore, after they lay eggs their metabolic need is best directed at building themselves back up (anabolic). Then it is lipids (oil) that the same adult benefit more from & are programmed to seek out.
Protein for the formation of eggs should make the larvae attractive again when a particular breeder's cycle turns that way. If there are reptiles destined for consumption & not breeding that are not developing follicles then you may find that stock is more instinctively inclined toward lower protein seeking.

The non-breeders may self limit larvae intake & breeders may show a phase where we notice they've begun to "reject" amount of larvae they previously relished. Your option is to rear larvae differently; one emphasizing getting larvae with a higher fat content & another production of larvae fed at stage when that larvae's protein content is highest.

Furthermore, the ratio of calcium should be maximized for egg shell formation. One way to do this is to reduce the relative % of phosphorus in the larvae; at the same time you want to keep the calcium since the calcium in larvae is highly biologically available (being organic incorporated calcium & not a mineral molecule). Phosphorus in living cells is of course crucial & among other functions is part of cell membranes (membranes contain phospho-lipids of different composition) so a deficiency should not be artificially created (phosphorus is used in ATP energy dynamic).

Thus for follicle developing reptiles' pending egg production the total amount of phospho-lipids (phosphorus) in the larvae you feed them can be manipulated by selecting larvae that are younger for feeding the breeding stock. Since larval fat body increases with instars the internal insect fat body membrane becomes more extensive, which means more phosphorus incorporated as phospho-lipids.
In the future re-consider solid substrate fermentation of larvae; rice bran fermentation bed can be started up seeded with native beer only (no need for miso) & it is something rural homesteads can perform. The process will not add calcium to boost the calcium level but may reduce phosphorus in the fermented larvae & thus improve the calcium:phosphorus ratio for your egg producers. Furthermore, amino acid methionine is always a tricky protein component to obtain. Fermentation cleaves (proteo-lysis) protein molecules & then the fermentative micro-organisms use the broken apart protein fractions while at the same time reassembling amino acids. You thus have an opportunity to manipulate the sulphur content of what you feed the larvae (cruciferous plants are high in sulphur; ex: mustard) at some stage of the larval development, euthanize those larvae for solid substrate fermentation, let micro-organisms form methionine & supplement live larvae with some fermented larvae to expand the versatility of BSF larvae for reptiles.


Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:18 pm
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Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:44 pm
Posts: 96
Post Re: Scientific Trial in Scotland @ Salmon Farms
Hi again StVitus,
Can your salmon team use the guts & not just the morts to feed BSF - either viscera directly or those guts pre-processed in some manner? The news breaker linked below hydrolizes salmon viscera protein & although I don't know what methods they are experimenting with I think it involves some fermentation agent to cleave or "-lyse" loose the amino acids. Maybe you can feed the BSF larvae salmon guts, ferment the larvae & then extract the protein as a clean end product like these news breakers?

Cells United's "cellper"(trademark) venture's technology is touted as based on space research & since water/area limited on space craft I surmise they are using a solid substrate fermentation or SSF; fluid fermentations need copious volume containers. I don't think it would have been exactly like Japanese rice bran fermentation which involves random microbes, but rather a more specialized micro-organism inoculation.
http://www.cellsunited.com/

"Fish guts to be used to combat global malnutrition"
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/bu ... nutrition/

"Salmon producer Loch Duart signs waste deal with nutrition firm"
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-sco ... um=twitter

Here is an example of fish waste hydrolysis for protein = "Enzymatic hydrolysis of proteins from yellowfin tuna Thunnus albacares/ wastes using Alcalase"; in Journal of Molecular Catalysis B: Enzymatic 11 2001 1051–1059
http://download.bioon.com.cn/upload/mon ... attach.pdf


Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:57 am
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