View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:00 am



Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
 Maturing larvae soft body syndrome 
Author Message

Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 6:53 am
Posts: 32
Location: State of Sabah, ( North Borneo) Malaysia
Post Maturing larvae soft body syndrome
The title is just to catch some attention :lol: but that's what's it called. I'm wondering if anyone experienced any problems as BSFL larvae approach maturity with insides becoming soft, then gradually dying. I've been trying to raise BSFL for quite awhile now but experienced this problem quite recently.

For the sake of experimenting,I was raising BSF larvae on both wet and dry media, with dry conditions showing better results until this 'soft body' syndrome started appearing. In wet media consisting of rotting fresh food, young larvae may develop this problem. Suspecting erratic and anaerobic conditions of rotting food, I switched to growing grubs in fermented media which succeeded at minimizing this problem to mortality rate of around 5% of total population of grubs. There are large to dark pupas all lying around with softened insides, appearing motionless.

I don't have any drainage, so i'm wondering if this could be the cause.But I've seen commercial scale BSFL farms where they raise BSFL in trays filled with moist gunk while larvae feed and pupate happily - strange but how'd they do it?

thanks all hearing my rant, hopefully there are some answers to my little problem :lol:

thanks guys


Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:55 am
Profile Send private message
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:59 pm
Posts: 2571
Location: Alberta Canada
Post Re: Maturing larvae soft body syndrome
Izhizm wrote:
The title is just to catch some attention :lol: but that's what's it called. I'm wondering if anyone experienced any problems as BSFL larvae approach maturity with insides becoming soft, then gradually dying. I've been trying to raise BSFL for quite awhile now but experienced this problem quite recently.
Possibly colony collapse caused by a large volume of fifth instar larvae purge their guts at the same time causing a bacteria spike which leads to a temperature spike. (link).

Quote:
...But I've seen commercial scale BSFL farms where they raise BSFL in trays filled with moist gunk while larvae feed and pupate happily - strange but how'd they do it?
From the videos I've seen I think the commercial operations mostly use spent brewers grain which is relatively dry and allows the larvae to be harvested by sifting them from the frass.

_________________
BorealWormer

I Believe The Black Soldier Fly Has The Potential To Be A Beneficial Insect Second Only To Pollinating Bees


Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:07 am
Profile Send private message WWW

Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 6:53 am
Posts: 32
Location: State of Sabah, ( North Borneo) Malaysia
Post Re: Maturing larvae soft body syndrome
Thank you very much, will do some reading on the links provided. Im wondering if there's any SOP about mitigating this problem, especially since this is becoming my number one hurdle in raising plague proportions of BSFL.

I've been quite busy trying to get things to work especially now that i've convinced a local university here to conduct research trials on BSF as high quality protein feed for fish.

Thanks
:mrgreen:


Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:33 pm
Profile Send private message

Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:59 am
Posts: 132
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Post Re: Maturing larvae soft body syndrome
Dry it out! Coco coir does a treat. #drybins4life


Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:50 pm
Profile Send private message

Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 6:53 am
Posts: 32
Location: State of Sabah, ( North Borneo) Malaysia
Post Re: Maturing larvae soft body syndrome
Aussiemoo wrote:
Dry it out! Coco coir does a treat. #drybins4life



Cool, dry bedding~ Been there bro, dry bins certainly are the most productive. Unfortunately, most food waste are wet anyways, so its kinda complicated if I ought to go down this dry path when the plan's to capitalize on the 'waste to protein' direction.

But! I'm wondering if I can solve this 'soft body problem' by harvesting the larvae as soon they enter their 5th instar before they pupate, this way I can avoid the problem when they start throwing their guts out.

I can keep some for the fish and the rest can be set aside till they turn dark for the next generation, what do you guys think? tis possible? :D
sounds good in theory. hahaha


Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:39 am
Profile Send private message
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:59 pm
Posts: 2571
Location: Alberta Canada
Post Re: Maturing larvae soft body syndrome
A few random thoughts:

Izhizm wrote:
... dry bins certainly are the most productive. Unfortunately, most food waste are wet anyways, so its kinda complicated if I ought to go down this dry path when the plan's to capitalize on the 'waste to protein' direction.
Pre-drying the wet food before feeding it to the BSFL. Perhaps a solar dryer of some sort? (link)

Quote:
... But! I'm wondering if I can solve this 'soft body problem' by harvesting the larvae as soon they enter their 5th instar before they pupate, this way I can avoid the problem when they start throwing their guts out.

I can keep some for the fish and the rest can be set aside till they turn dark for the next generation, what do you guys think? tis possible? :D
sounds good in theory. hahaha
Owners of pet reptiles prefer the white larvae too. I don't know how well this would scale up but you could try something like the Immature Larvae Collection Device or ILCD (old butter tub) (link). This is simply a container with some small holes around the bottom edge. Food is placed in the container which is placed on the surface of the frass. The larvae crawl in through the holes to get at the food and then can be easily harvested.

Image


Forty minutes later:
Image


Anyways what you propose would be a worthwhile experiment.

_________________
BorealWormer

I Believe The Black Soldier Fly Has The Potential To Be A Beneficial Insect Second Only To Pollinating Bees


Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:34 am
Profile Send private message WWW

Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 6:53 am
Posts: 32
Location: State of Sabah, ( North Borneo) Malaysia
Post Re: Maturing larvae soft body syndrome
BorealWormer wrote:
A few random thoughts:
Anyways what you propose would be a worthwhile experiment.


thanks for all the ideas bro, :D

Chatted about this problem with my BSFL whatsapp community, and they reckoned it could be a drainage issue. Reading from your experience raising BSFL, you raise larvae using a flow-thru system amiright? Apparently, some of the members have modified their bins by drilling weep holes to allow the leachate to escape the bin and they've been giving the larvae all sorts of food, from veggies to fish and chicken offal with no problems. Impressive.


Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:50 am
Profile Send private message
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:59 pm
Posts: 2571
Location: Alberta Canada
Post Re: Maturing larvae soft body syndrome
Drainage is a problem that large scale operations avoid by sticking to drier feedstock like spent brewers grians. It's a difficult problem as the frass from wet food waste has the consistency of mud and clogs filters quickly.

Jerry (this sites founder) was experimenting with backflushing small bins to clear drainage systems and promote crawl-off of larvae (link) but again I don't know how well that would scale up.

_________________
BorealWormer

I Believe The Black Soldier Fly Has The Potential To Be A Beneficial Insect Second Only To Pollinating Bees


Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:09 pm
Profile Send private message WWW

Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 6:53 am
Posts: 32
Location: State of Sabah, ( North Borneo) Malaysia
Post Re: Maturing larvae soft body syndrome
I did try raising larvae with the dry method in a tray with drilled undersides, layered with wet cardboard. Interesting results tho, from the first instar, it was really plain smooth sailing, the colony were eating, very active with a consistent heat signature.

Even for the first few days on the fifth instar, the larvae survived until more of them turned into pupa, only then problems arise. It's prolly confirmed that the problem is caused by increasing number of fifth instars puking their guts out to enter pupation stage causing problems for the late bloomers who later died. Increase of fifth instars entering pupation means more puke, and more puke means more baddie bacteria.

Thankfully the layered cardboard increased survival rates alot because it absorbs much of the excreta which could have worsened the proliferation of baddie bacteria. Gonna keep this option but im prolly gunna have to start a more regimental harvest schedule for BSFL larvae.

Harvest everything once they enter the fifth instar to prevent problems. Keep some for the fish and the rest let them mature into flies for the next generation.


Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:51 pm
Profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 9 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.